Veteran 9-1-1 Dispatcher, Carrie, sits down with us to discuss how she does what she does and why. As we listen to three of her most memorable 9-1-1 calls we get the lowdown on what it’s like to be on the receiving end of the emergency line in Small Town, USA.
Special Guest
Dispatcher Carrie
Dispatcher Carrie has worked in law enforcement for 15 years. She currently serves as a dispatcher, a hostage/crisis negotiator, and a Field Training Officer in her small town.
Carrie: They might not know what they need. They might just know that whatever they have going on in their life is over their head and they’re reaching out for help. We’re on the line with them, kind of sifting through all those details. There’s an honor in being able to help in situations that are so emotional and overpowering.
Yeardley: I’m Yeardley.
Zibby: And I’m Zibby. And we’re fascinated by true crime.
Yeardley: So, we invited our friends, Detectives Dan and Dave.
Zibby: To sit down with us, and share their most interesting cases.
Dan: I’m Dan.
Dave: And I’m Dave.
Dan: We’re identical twins.
Dave: And we’re detectives in Small Town, USA.
Dan: Dave investigates sex crimes and child abuse.
Dave: Dan investigates violent crimes. And together, we’ve worked on hundreds of cases, including assaults, robberies, murders, burglaries, sex abuse, and child abuse.
Dan: Names, locations, and certain details of these cases have been altered to protect the privacy of the victims and their families.
Dave: While we realize that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we hope you’ll join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved-
Dan: -out of respect for what they’ve been through. Thank you.
[Small Town Dicks theme]Yeardley: Today, on Small Town Dicks, we have the usual suspects. We have Detective Dan.
Dan: Always a pleasure.
Yeardley: Detective Dave.
Dave: Good afternoon.
Yeardley: And we’re so pleased to have Dispatcher, Carrie with us.
Carrie: Hello.
Zibby: Hi, Carrie.
Yeardley: Hi, Carrie. [chuckles]
Carrie: Hi.
Zibby: So, Carrie, you’re a 911 dispatcher and you’ve brought some of your most memorable 911 calls from your work over the years that we will listen to and we’ll get to ask you about. But first, I really want to know how long you’ve been a dispatcher and how you even got into it in the first place.
Carrie: This is coming on 15 years for me this spring, and I kind of stumbled into it on happy accident. I had just graduated college. I moved up here. I was interested in law enforcement, and I saw an opening for dispatcher, so I applied. I ended up making through the process, and it’s a job that’s very addictive. It’s neat, it’s exciting. You get to be part of this bigger purpose. You’re working with police officers and you’re working with citizens, and it’s very rewarding.
Yeardley: Even as you went through the training, when you got into the field, did you feel prepared or did you go, “Oh, God, this is going to take a minute?”
Carrie: Well, you obviously are dealing with people at some of the worst moments of their life, and I don’t think anything really prepares you for that. You kind of just come in with a sense of wanting to be part of that. And we kind of joke about, “Oh, we really want to help people, but I really feel like what we do is helping people.” I think that really strong, centered feeling that you have about you, you helps you through some of the things you’re going to hear and that you’re going to deal with that maybe nothing ever prepares you for.
Zibby: Yeah. Because you’re dealing with so much unknown. I would feel personally so intimidated by that and scared that I wouldn’t have the right things to say. And obviously, you have a degree of training to go through first. But like you say, “Nothing can really prepare you for what you’re going to encounter with every call, right.” Is what you’re saying that sense of self and hanging on to knowing that you’re doing good is the very thing that grounds you and sort of helps you proceed?
Carrie: That helps me, yes. It’s also like the game show where you don’t know what’s behind door number one, but you’re excited to see and you know whatever’s behind that door, you’re all going to get through together because you have the resources and you have the training and it takes a sense of compassion I think too, and a sense of focus and a sense of wanting to help that person through whatever they’re experiencing in that moment. Because to them, it can be one of the largest crises they’re ever going to deal with in their life. Or it could be something totally benign. It could be passing a traffic hazard and you want to help the officers get out there and move something out of the roadway so there’s not an accident. So not everything is life and death, but those moments that are, I think, are really powerful, and they keep you going and they keep you interested in this career.
Zibby: What’s different about being a dispatcher in a small town versus a big metropolitan city?
Carrie: What I love about this town is that we really know our officers. We get to know the people in our community. You feel a really strong tie to the people you’re serving, and you could be answering the phone and it could be your friend on the other end or it could be your family.
Zibby: Have you ever gotten a call from somebody you do know?
Carrie: Yeah. A gal that works here last week was in an accident on the freeway. So, she calls in. So you still treat it the same as anything.
Zibby: Sure. But that’s a small town feature for sure.
Carrie: Yeah. I don’t know if you’d get that in LA or a big city.
Zibby: All right. Do dispatchers in bigger cities still have personal relationships with their officers or is that very much a small town feature?
Carrie: I think it’s unique to a small town because we get to go to briefing with the officers. We spend a half an hour at the beginning of our shift talking about the previous calls for service. We get to talk about what the current events are, what the current interests are, what people are working on or who they may be looking for. The officers can come in for their breaks and lunches.
Yeardley: You mean coming into the dispatcher’s den, where you guys work?
Carrie: Yeah. If they have a really bad call, they can come in and kind of decompress. They might not want to talk about it, but we can just kind of chit-chat and talk about how their day’s going or talk about how their kid’s doing in football or something. And I think it’s that neat relationship you get to cultivate that’s healthy and it’s good for all of us. I think that definitely is a small town feature.
Zibby: It must translate into your work too. I remember Dispatcher Dawn who we had in Season 1. I remember her talking about knowing what the tone of their officer’s voice kind of meant and how that would cue her as to, how to deliver information or speak to each officer. Do you find that to be true for you as well?
Carrie: Yes, we feel a connection, we listen to their voice so often that you can tell if something is starting to escalate or something’s starting to go sideways before they even say it a lot of times. It’s really haunting when you hear an officer that you have worked with for years scream shots fired, you know them personally, and I think that makes it a little more intimate and connected, which I like.
Yeardley: How do you decompress after a day that’s been incredibly stressful or where you’ve encountered a call where somebody’s life is in danger? What happens at the end of that day?
Carrie: I think there’s a couple techniques that really work for me. I really feel drawn to nature. So I’ll just go outside, go on a hike, go on a walk, maybe go upstairs to the gym and run on the treadmill and just kind of sweat it out a little bit just to get that physical release and just work through it a little bit. I think it’s really important too to ask for help. I’m a really big supporter of peer support for people in this line of work. We have this mentality that we’re strong and we can suck it up, but some days you just need to reach out to somebody and tell them, “I had a bad day.” And with being a small community in a small department you form close friendships with people you can trust, that you can reach out to. And that’s another benefit to working in a small department in a small town, I think.
Zibby: In your opinion, are there any specific qualities a dispatcher really needs in order to be an effective responder?
Carrie: To be a dispatcher, I would say takes a couple of core things. There’s an innate need to serve, and you have to like talking to people. There’s also a lot of listening. So as much as you talk, there’s a lot that we take in. In essence, we’re first responders on scene. We’re not taking it in visually, but we’re the auditory link to what’s happening on scene. So, the minute you pick up the phone and it starts recording, that can be the first piece of evidence in a case. What is somebody saying to you? Are they going down a path of truthfulness or are they telling you some wicked story that’s going to end up being a cover for something larger? I mean, we never know, but we’re tapped in as a first responder and we’re taking it all in with our ears.
It’s a combination between getting information that you feel like is relevant for the responding officers and just trying to gauge what’s really happening and what kind of resources are they needing at the moment. Sometimes people just need police. Sometimes they’ll say something where you realize it’s turning more into a medical call and it’s your responsibility to roll with it and let it unfold. They might not know what they need. They might just know that whatever they have going on in their life is over their head and they’re reaching out for help. And we’re on the line with them, kind of sifting through all those details to see, “Well, what do they really need at that moment?”
Dave: Give me the most ridiculous 911 call. A reason that somebody’s called 911 and you’ve answered it.
Zibby: Yeah.
Carrie: I had a woman whose doorbell was stuck [Yeardley laughs] and she did not know what to do. It was alarming her. She was in such a state where she couldn’t really figure out what was going on. In my mind, your doorbell ringing over and over isn’t an emergency. But to her, in that moment, it was feeling like one. [Yeardley laughs] So, I think you kind of have to suspend judgment a little bit. You give them a moment to find out what they’re really calling for. Because sometimes people can’t communicate what they’re calling for or they might be having a medical issue where they’re not communicating clearly.
Zibby: Well, “What was her situation?”
Carrie: She was intoxicated and her doorbell was stuck.
[laughter]Zibby: How old was she? Was she senile or–
Carrie: No, she’s unwell, but she’s in her 50s.
Dan: And we’ve got that call, correct?
Carrie: We have that call.
[music]Caller 1: I’ve got alarm or something. I’m scared.
Carrie: What kind of sound are you hearing?
Caller 1: Can you hear it?
Carrie: Somebody’s ringing your doorbell.
Caller 1: That’s what I thought.
Carrie: Yeah. That’s somebody ringing your doorbell.
Caller 1: There ain’t nobody at my door.
Yeardley: Oh, sweet thing.
Zibby: Oh, dear.
Carrie: Do you know where your doorbell box is? Like, sometimes it’s in a closet or something.
Caller 1: Yeah, there’s a box right here in a hall.
Carrie: Can you go check that? Maybe it’s stuck.
Caller 1: I’m trying to.
Carrie: Okay.
Caller 1: I can’t shut it off.
Carrie: Can’t shut it off.
Caller 1: Scares me. I’m sorry. I’ve only been here a month or two.
Carrie: No, it’s okay. I mean, “Is that where it’s coming from, is your doorbell?”
Caller 1: That’s what I think it is.
Carrie: That’s kind of what it sounds like. Can you put the phone up to it?
Caller 1: I did. I had it up there when I was talking to you.
Carrie: Yeah, that’s what it sounds like to me.
Caller 1: I was trying to go to sleep.
Carrie: Okay. “There’s no one at your door?”
Caller 1: It’s an alarm, but there’s nobody at my door.
Carrie: Can you open your door and push your doorbell a few times and see if that resets it?
Caller 1: I’ll try.
Carrie: Can you do that while you’re on the phone with me?
Caller 1: Don’t hang up.
Carrie: I won’t leave you there alone. Take the phone with you to the doorbell and see if you pushed a couple times, if it resets it.
Caller 1: I’m trying to unlock the door. [chuckles]
Carrie: Oh, no.
Caller 1: I been here very long. I want to go home.
Dan: I want to go home?
Caller 1: [ [unintelligible] the glass? I’m sorry.
Carrie: Did it stop it?
Caller 1: I can’t open my door.
Carrie: Can’t get your door open?
Caller 1: No.
Carrie: How come?
Yeardley: Oh, dear.
Caller 1: Okay. How to go to sleep.
Carrie: Okay.
unison: [chuckles]
Caller 1: I’m trying to unlock it.
Carrie: Okay. Can you do that?
Caller 1: I’m trying.
Carrie: Okay. Had a little bit to drink tonight.
Caller 1: Oh, yeah.
Carrie: Yeah.
Caller 1: They don’t want me to take pain pills, don’t want me to take drugs. Don’t want me to smoke pot. Just enjoy pain.
Carrie: Oh, “What hurts?”
Caller 1: My neck.
Carrie: Your neck?
Carrie: So in this line of questioning, I’m trying to find out, “Do you need something from us that maybe we can send to help you? Do you need a medic?” Are you just–
Yeardley: Are you just intoxicated and your doorbell’s going off.
Carrie: Exactly, yeah. So that’s why I’m trying to question and sort through.
Your neck.
Caller 1: I did. On my spine.
Carrie: Oh, neck’s kind of important. That drives your whole body.
Caller 1: Oh, yeah. And then I had that neck surgery too.
Carrie: Yeah.
Caller 1: I can’t get out of here. Oh, I got the door open.
Carrie: Okay, you push the doorbell a couple times, see if that kind of resets it.
Caller 1: Hang on.
Carrie: Okay.
Caller 1: Yep. Stopped it.
Carrie: Is it good now?
Caller 1: Yes. I quit.
Carrie: Okay. It sounds like your doorbell got stuck. So maybe talk to your manager tomorrow and have him check it out. That’s annoying.
Caller 1: No, I’m moving out of here.
Carrie: Where are you going?
Caller 1: I don’t care.
Carrie: Anywhere.
Caller 1: Anywhere.
Carrie: Alaska.
Caller 1: BFE.
Carrie: [chuckles] Yeah, that sounds warm.
Dan: BFE. Butt fuck Egypt. [chuckles] Oh, Carrie says it sounds warm.
Zibby: So compassionate.
Caller 1: I’m sorry. I’m an alcoholic. I’m trying to do treatment and–
Carrie: Yeah. Stuff happens, huh?
Caller 1: No, I’m not supposed to take ibuprofen because it makes me bleed out my behind.
Carrie: Yeah.
Zibby: TMI.
Carrie: A little bit.
Carrie: Yeah. Pain is not so enjoyable.
Caller 1: I know. I’m a good person. I got letters of recommendations from all these places I volunteered and–
Carrie: Yeah.
Yeardley: I’m assuming this is late at night.
Carrie: Yeah. I think some of her issues come out during the call, just trying to make sure she’s in a good space.
Yeardley: How did you end the call?
Carrie: We get there, I let her kind of talk a little bit, and it’s not super busy, so I give her some time and she works through it.
Yeardley: So nice.
Caller 1: Lately, having a problem with alcohol.
Carrie: Yeah, you got to– It’s your right to drink. It obviously is not the healthiest choice.
Caller 1: No, but it kills the pain.
Carrie: Yeah.
Caller 1: They don’t want me to take ibuprofen so I don’t bleed out my behind.
Carrie: Yeah.
Caller 1: Well, “What do you want me to do?”
Carrie: Well, alcohol make you bleed too?
Caller 1: No, it isn’t. No.
Carrie: Well, eventually your liver gives out on you, and then you bleed out from the inside. Not good.
Yeardley: Not good.
Carrie: I feel for her. She’s got some obstacles in her life to overcome if she wants to be in a better space. And she calls quite frequently, so I have kind of a soft spot for her. She’s a regular.
Yeardley: When you say regularly, sort of once a week or twice a month.
Carrie: Several times a week.
Yeardley: Oh.
Carrie: Yeah.
Caller 1: I’m not a bad person.
Carrie: No, I don’t think you’re a bad person. So, “Do you need [beep] to swing by or you got your doorbell fixed or you’re going to go to bed?”
Caller 1: I got the doorbell fixed and I’m going to go to bed. And maybe I should eat something.
Carrie: Okay. “You got something there to eat?”
Caller 1: I got a $200 grocery list. [chuckles]
Carrie: Well, there you go.
Caller 1: [unintelligible ]
Carrie: Well, go make yourself some food and go take a good sleep, and then call us back if you need anything else. Okay?
Caller 1: Thank you, ma’am. You have a good night.
Carrie: You’re welcome. Good luck with that doorbell. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Caller 1: Thank you for the doorbell.
[laughter]Carrie: Yeah, yeah. Take care.
Caller 1: [unintelligible ] My grandson was over earlier who’s 17 and anyway.
Carrie: Talk to your manager about that thing. It might just be a POS that needs to be replaced.
Caller 1: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. Good luck.
Caller 1: Thank you. Have a good night.
Carrie: You too. Bye. Thank you. Bye, bye.
Caller 1: Bye.
Carrie: We just check in with her, make sure she’s okay. If she does need something, we try to send her the help she needs. And sometimes you just tell her good night and she goes to bed and sleeps her booze off. But you never know till you sort through it.
Yeardley: Right.
Zibby: It’s sort of like you’re her relative. Do you know what I mean? Like she’d be calling a sister or a cousin or a nephew or something.
Yeardley: Yeah. She’s quite comfortable with you and has every confidence that you can solve the problem.
Carrie: Yeah, I think.
Yeardley: Which is lovely.
Carrie: It is, it’s kind of neat. We play different roles, [Yeardley chuckles] sometimes people need to call and yell and scream and work through it, and sometimes they need someone to bounce some ideas off of.
Yeardley: And just someone to say good night, sleep tight.
[Break 1]
Zibby: Carrie, in the call you mentioned a program which has a name that we bleeped out for locale purposes. But can you explain a little bit about what that program does?
Carrie: It’s a really neat resource that’s newer to our department. We’ve had it about a year now, but they are a 24-hour team of two, and they pair up a mobile crisis counselor in a van and at least an EMT level responder. So, they’ll have a crisis counselor and an EMT on board and they can go help alleviate some of the police workload. Like they can go check on someone like this gal who may have had a little too much to drink, may or may not need medical assistance. They can check in and just make sure she has everything she needs for the night to go sleep off her booze. They can take drunks over to a sobering facility. They can go talk to people who may be suicidal but aren’t wanting to act on it or aren’t armed with weapons. They’re a very amazing, valuable resource to our community and they do great work. So sometimes a 911 call will come in and they don’t need the police they need, [beep] and it’s just a response van that will go out and can help resolve issues without tying up police resources.
Yeardley: That’s really great. I don’t think I knew something like that even existed.
Zibby: I know. If we were in a big city, I feel like that call might have gone much differently.
Yeardley: Dan and Dave, we’ve heard you say often that you rely so much on your 911 dispatchers. How so?
Dan: I will say this, dispatch for me personally has been such a valuable resource. And I can think of one specific call that I went to where I said I would handle this loud noise complaint by myself and I would advise on a second unit if I needed it. I show up, this guy is ranting and yelling and screaming that he’s going to kill people from inside the house. Obviously, I’m not going to just go up and knock on that door. So, my link to him is the dispatchers are able to go through the computer system, they find his phone number, I rally the troops, we get enough people there, and they call inside and say, “Hey, you need to come outside and talk to these officers.” Without that, I’m going to have to go up and knock on that door and who knows what’s going to happen?
Zibby: Well, in a way, they’re the ones on the inside, on the other side of the door. I mean, like you say, it’s audio only, but you’re getting an intuitive hit and picking up cues from what you are hearing and probably what you’re not hearing.
Carrie: Exactly.
Zibby: So you’re actually already in. It’s like busting through barriers that you physically can’t, which is pretty cool to think about it that way.
Dave: Well, and they provide insight. Like she said, they can hear in an officer’s voice. Maybe it’s time to get another unit started that way before they even ask for it because they recognize something’s going wrong, might as well float somebody that way. But they’re also able to anticipate the types of questions that we’re going to have on our way or when we get there. They’re also able to anticipate, “Hey, this guy’s not answering questions or there’s something else going on here because he’s stepped away from the phone and now, I hear arguing in the back.” They are a direct link for us to know. If I’m five blocks away where things are with this dispute versus if I’m on the other side of the city, “Do I need to step it up and get there now?” We are blessed with great dispatchers at our agency and they’re intuitive like that.
Zibby: Yeah, that was my next question. “Have you found that your intuition has only grown?” Has time and experience fine-tuned your 6th sense, if you will?
Carrie: Yeah, I definitely think the more dispute calls you deal with, you’re dealing with similar types of calls, but there can be subtle nuances in there that pique your interest or the sound out of the ordinary. So, you start to maybe take the line of questioning a little different direction to find out if there is something more to what’s going on. Sometimes there is and sometimes there’s not, but it gives you some sort of guidance, like, “Maybe there is more to what we’re actually hearing or more to the story.”
Zibby: Yeah. So over time, you’ve learned to give more weight to those things, do you think?
Carrie: Yeah. When you first start, everything is new and exciting. You’re like, “Wow, I can’t believe people treat each other like this, and I can’t believe they call 911 and talk to other people like this. [Yeardley chuckles] You’re dealing with a lot of, I guess the vast differences in human behavior all come flying at you in crisis situations that these people are dealing with. But over time, you just kind of get settled into the natural line of questioning with disputes. But, yeah, like Dan and Dave were saying, “You can hear in the voice of the caller when something’s not right, and you can hear in the voice of the officer when something’s going sideways.” I think just time and confidence and repetition and honoring that we do have an intuitive nature about what we’re dealing with.
Zibby: Dave and Dan, I remember you guys saying that even in your training, you were taught to heed that feeling that you get when the hair on the back of your neck stands up, to trust that means something.
Dan: A couple things there, you learn very quickly, and you learn it from more experienced people when you’re going through the FTO process.
Yeardley: Field Training Officer.
Dan: Yeah, he’s the coach. The three FTOs that I had when I was in training had all been cops over 20 years. And when they tell you, some days you’re going to go to a call and the hair on your neck is going to stand up, please listen to it. And I never forgot that. I remember going to calls where the hair on my neck would stand up and it would turn into nothing. It was a nothing call, but I’ve also had experiences where the hair on my neck stood up, and it was a big call. So, kind of speaking to that, I would imagine that you’ve had occasion during phone calls where maybe the caller doesn’t feel like they’re free to speak, and that would speak to that intuition that you talk about where you can kind of pick up that things aren’t right there, and you have to walk them through this call.
Carrie: Yes, that definitely happens. Sometimes they can’t speak at all, and you prompt them to press the button, press a tone once for yes or twice for no.
Yeardley: Oh, wow.
Zibby: Have you ever had to get creative like that? I mean, who came up with the press one if you can’t say it out loud, is that in the training book, or do you invent your own?
Carrie: No, it’s something that gets passed down in training. Yeah.
Yeardley: Oh, really?
Carrie: Yeah.
Zibby: Have you ever encountered a situation where someone can’t talk at all, so they just dial 911 and leave the phone sitting there?
Carrie: A lot of times, we’ll just have an open line where they’re not responding, but you can hear the dispute in the background, so you know something’s obviously happening, but you’re not sure who called or to what extent, if it’s physical or if it’s just been verbal, but–
Zibby: What do you do in that case?
Carrie: Just stay on the line and listen. You listen for clues. You keep the officers updated as they’re responding to the call, as to what you’re hearing. If it sounds like it’s escalating or if it sounds like one party just left and slammed the door, you can let them know. We’re also accessing the computer records during that time to be checking for previous calls at that house, previous people who have been contacted or arrested out of there. We’re letting the officers know, “This gentleman was arrested out of there two weeks ago, and he has caution indicators that he fights with police and that he owns firearms.” So, we can let the officers know why they’re responding to this, what sounds like a dispute. These are the people they may or may not be dealing with.
Zibby: I’ve always wondered how difficult it is to accurately pinpoint where a call is coming from if it’s made from a cell phone.
Carrie: People think, “Oh, you watch CSI and, oh, they can tell where you are exactly.” That’s not true. Smaller agencies like us sometimes will get a mile range from a cell tower.
Yeardley: A mile. That’s huge.
Carrie: It is huge. Especially when you’re hearing things on the other end of the line that sound terrifying and you want to get help to that person.
Yeardley: What do you do?
Carrie: You keep an open line. You try to see if you can get someone back on the phone. There’s this form in a lot of phone companies. If there’s exigency, if it sounds like someone is in imminent danger or what you’re hearing sounds serious enough, you can actually, while you keep an open line, have a coworker get in touch with the phone company, and they’ll do an emergency locate on the phone. And sometimes they can get more information and sometimes they can’t. Sometimes all you have is an area to check and you send the officers. You do have to look for something.
Zibby: Oh, my God-
Yeardley: Wow.
Zibby: –this is a big problem with cell phones. I’m so glad I asked because I always thought that if I were, say, kidnapped and thrown in the trunk of a car, I would just call 911 and whisper to you, “Carrie, that I’m in the trunk of a moving car.” And then your team would be able to pull up a flashing blue dot on a map somewhere and send in the helicopters to get me. But you’re saying you can’t get that specific.
Carrie: Usually not. It’s not like the movies.
Yeardley: Have you ever been on a call where someone is being hostile to you or really unhelpful, and it’s prompted you to say something that you regret?
Carrie: Yeah. I don’t use profanity on 911 lines, even though I want to quite often. [Yeardley chuckles] I told a guy just a week and a half ago, he called in and he was upset, and he wanted something from us that we were not going to deliver because it was not a police issue, it was a civil issue. I just told him he was being ridiculous. But the disdain in my voice, I’m like, “You are so ridiculous right now.” Because he was,-
[laughter]-but, yeah, we really try to deescalate. So, by the time the officer gets there, hopefully we take a person that’s up here and they’re on this much calmer level. Like, they’ve had time to process what they’re experiencing, and they can take some of that verbal punching bag out on us sometimes and you can’t take it personal because you have to know their ability to cope with whatever’s happening is shot. So, he may be calling me the c-word, but that’s his deal. He’s beyond his ability to cope and that’s one of the reasons he’s calling for help.
Yeardley: Right.
Carrie: It’s not productive if you let them get under your skin, because I’m going to hang up with him. The officers are going to do what they’re going to do to resolve whatever’s going on. And then I have another call, so you just got to kind of let it go. They’re having a bad day that’s why they called.
Yeardley: Are you able to address your personal relationships and friendships that way too, in that incredibly Zen, articulate, well spoken, [laughs] even temperament that you’re exhibiting right here across the table from us?
Carrie: I try to come from a centered place of compassion, all these humans going through this experience together.
Yeardley: That’s a really beautiful way to see things.
Zibby: Also, I think it’s a good segue into the next two calls that you brought, which are much heavier than the last one. Do you want to tell us about this next call?
Carrie: So this woman calls in because she’s just discovered that her son has committed suicide. And people don’t always react the way you think they’re going to react because they’re still sorting through what they’re looking at or what they’re dealing with. And so there are points where she sounds like maybe she’s kind of agitated, but I just kind of let her be, and she’s riding through this experience that she’s having. What’s so neat about this is her and I don’t know each other, but for me, we share this kind of powerful moment.
[music]Carrie: Hi. This is Carrie at [beep] So you’re going to open the apartment door?
Caller 2: Yeah, well, I just unlocked it because my daughter-in-law just got me up.
Carrie: Okay, and its apartment number [beep] we’re coming to?
Caller 2: Yes.
Carrie: Okay.
Caller 2: It’s on the right-hand side.
Carrie: Upstairs or downstairs?
Caller 2: Huh?
Carrie: Upstairs or downstairs?
Caller 2: I can’t understand you.
Carrie: Is the apartment upstairs or downstairs?
Caller 2: Oh, no, it’s ground level.
Carrie: Ground level. Okay, perfect. And what is your son’s name? [beep] What’s his date of birth? [beep] Okay, who else is there with you?
Caller 2: My daughter-in-law.
Carrie: Your daughter-in-law. Okay.
[music]Carrie: And he’s beyond help.
Caller 2: He’s cold, lady.
Carrie: He’s cold. Okay?
Caller 2: He’s cold. He ain’t breathing. My daughter-in-law found him. They have a two-month-old baby still in the NICU at the fucking hospital.
Carrie: Oh, no. Okay. Well, we do have some officers around [beep] en route this coming as well.
Caller 2: Who is?
Carrie: They have a medic and a counselor [crosstalk] daughter-in-law.
Caller 2: I know what [beep] is.
Carrie: Yeah, okay. All right. “How’s your daughter-in-law doing?”
Caller 2: No, she’s having a freaking head. Yeah, she’s going to shit in a handbag.
Carrie: Yeah. Well, that’s understandable. [beep] just come in to talk with her, okay? And see if they can assist.
Caller 2: I don’t know what they’re going to assist on. She just lost her best friend. It hasn’t hit me yet, lady. This is my only child.
Carrie: Yeah, and I’m sorry. And you’re doing a great job on the phone, okay?
Caller 2: No, I’m getting kind of pissed now. When you get woke up by your daughter-in-law screaming in your face.
Carrie: Yeah, that is not a polite way to wake up.
Caller 2: No, I see humor in a lot of shit.
Carrie: Yeah.
Caller 2: Yeah. PTSD is not kicked in yet.
Carrie: Okay. All right. “Is she needing an ambulance or any sort of medical for. Is she having some issues breathing or anything? Or is she okay?”
Caller 2: She falling a fucking apart.
Carrie: Okay, all right.
Caller 2: How could he do this? How could we not hear the gunshot?
Carrie: When did you guys last see him?
Caller 2: Okay, hold the dog. Yeah, come on in.
Carrie: Oh, they’re there.
Caller 2: Oh, God. Are we in full swap mode or what?
Carrie: No, we’re not in swap mode.
Caller 2: Oh, hold the dog.
Officer: Why don’t you get some over here?
Carrie: I’m going to let you go, okay?
Caller 2: Hang on, lady.
Carrie: I’m going to let you go talk to the officers, okay?
[Break 2]
Carrie: That’s what we do. That’s the gist of it.
Yeardley: Wow.
Zibby: It is really amazing to hear that, because especially if you haven’t gone through something like that, it’s really easy to judge somebody’s behavior in the face of a big traumatic event like that. And you’re right, it’s not the typical what you would imagine a mother to sound like after discovering her son who’s killed himself. But that was so real and honest, and you were just validating what she was able to say on her own behalf.
Carrie: I think it’s powerful to share those moments with people. We love the police work where it’s exciting and it’s dangerous, and we’re dealing with chasing bad guys and putting people in jail and yay, good guys, bad guys. But for me, when you ask what kind of calls stick with you, it’s the calls like this that really stick with me, because these are raw moments that these people are bringing to you, and they become this strange little piece of you in a way I don’t know how to describe. You’re connected in this human way during these moments where people are dealing with horrendous things. And all we do is kind of bridge the gap between what they’re calling for and that help arriving.
Zibby: So when you hang up that call, what happens? Do you shake it off right away or do you take a moment? How do you end that call and then reset?
Carrie: I just take a deep breath and I just wish her well. You know, she’s– I wish her well. For me, it’s we had the moment, and she continued on her journey, and I’m on mine, and maybe we’ll meet again, hopefully not in any sort of crisis. But you never know. And maybe she is the woman in line behind me at Starbucks that I’ll never know.
Zibby: Neither of you would know.
Carrie: Yeah. It’s just how it is. Yeah.
Yeardley: Fascinating.
Zibby: Well, you must hear from people in such a heightened state of emotion all the time. And one thing I’ve heard is when you’re dealing with someone in that heightened state, one tactic to help bring them back to present is to get them to describe their physical surroundings and things that are happening in the moment, “Is that something that you’ve done?”
Carrie: Well, I kind of beat myself up over the next call. It’s such an emotional call. The caller is so emotional, where I kind of feel like, in hindsight, we can be hard on ourselves and be like, “Oh, I should have said this or I could have said more.” And in the next call, that probably is what I should have been doing. I should have been distracting her, perhaps, because I keep an open line with her for what feels like a long amount of time, and she’s just dealing with emotions. I don’t always feel like I say the right thing and the right things don’t always come to me. But it is what it is, you know?
Yeardley: Sure. Well, we’re all just humans, as you said before. I feel like I should warn our listeners that this next call is particularly emotional and may be difficult to listen to.
[music]Carrie: Officers are en route. Okay. What’s his name?
Caller 3: [beep]
Carrie: What’s his first name?
Caller 3: sobbing [beep]
Carrie: Okay. [beep]
Caller 3: Oh, my God.
Carrie: Is there anyone else in the car with him or just himself?
Caller 3: [unintelligible ]birthday.
Carrie: I’m so sorry. Where are you right now?
Caller 3: [beep] My little daughter, my little daughter. [sobbing] [radio traffic]
Carrie: So you hear the radio traffic in the background. There’s other things going on as we’re taking this call. There’s other police work happening in the background also.
Carrie: You’re in the house. Okay. And your daughter’s at school right now.
Caller: Yeah. You have to come now. Wait here. [crying] You have to get [beep] Somebody has to get [beep] school.
Carrie: Who are you talking to?
Caller 3: I’m talking to my aunt.
Carrie: Your aunt’s there with you?
Caller 3: [crying] Oh, my God. Oh, my God. [unintelligible ] My baby, I need somebody to pick up my daughter from school. [beep]
Carrie: When we get there, we’ll help arrange that, okay. The officers are driving there as fast as they can, all right. [beep] outside in the pickup?
Caller 3 Yes.
Caller 2: Is it parked in the driveway?
Caller 3: Oh, God. I can’t see this. [sobbing]
Carrie: I know. I know.
Caller 3 [beep] I just took the client to work and she told me he was in the car, and I don’t know she saw him. I think she saw him. She did tell me.
Carrie: Okay. How long ago was that?
Caller 3 I’ve been in the house the whole time, and I didn’t know the– Okay. He left and I thought he went over to the other side of the house to be with the client, and so I just never paid attention, I never paid attention, I never paid attention. I didn’t know he was out there doing this.
Caller 2: Okay.
Caller 3: [unintelligible] believe I love them, I can’t.
Carrie: I’m so sorry. [beep] Just stay on the line with me till the officer gets there, okay? Is the vehicle parked in the driveway?
Caller 3: No, somebody else. [sobbing] Oh, my God. I just saw him. I know he’s dead.
Carrie: I’m so sorry. [beep]
Caller 3: Oh, my God. We just lost our little niece. We just lost my little niece and my daughter asked him not to do that to himself last night.
Carrie: He was talking about killing himself last night.
Caller 3 [unintelligible] mom, he did it. [crying]
Carrie: What kind of firearm does he have?
Caller 3 I don’t know. [sobbing] [unintelligible] [radio traffic]
Carrie: He, what? Is there anyone else in the vehicle with him [beep] or just him?
Caller 3 Are you guys coming? Are you–
Carrie: They’re coming. I know it feels like a long time. He’s driving there, okay.
Caller 3: [crying] Oh, my God why would he do this to us?
[music]Carrie: Yeah, that’s pretty intense emotion right there on the phone. [Yeardley sigh] And you don’t ever really know what to say in those moments.
Yeardley: Right. So, he’s committed suicide in the truck, I assume.
Carrie: Yes.
Yeardley: Yes. And you are trying to again, locate if there’s any other threat?
Carrie: Yeah. I’m trying to find out if he’s alone in the vehicle or if there’s someone with him. I’m trying to find out if the vehicle’s parked out on the roadway or if we have a crime scene in the driveway or a scene in the garage. Obviously, every time I try to get some facts, when she focuses on what’s happening, it kind of spins her up. So, I spend a lot of time letting her kind of be. And it feels like it takes forever for the officers to get there, but they’re coming from wherever they are in town and they’re responding appropriately. But it can feel like forever when you’re on the phone with that.
Yeardley: Right. And as long as you are able to keep her on the phone, you know that at least she’s safe.
Carrie: Yes.
Yeardley: So that is sort of number one priority once you can reasonably determine that nobody’s brandishing a weapon at anybody else.
Carrie: Right.
Yeardley: Right.
Carrie: Maybe she’ll think to say something else or maybe something will come to her that is important for us to know. Sometimes just keeping an open line gives you information that you might not get if you’re asking a bunch of questions.
Dave: I got called out on that one.
Yeardley: Oh.
Dave: I remember this one.
Zibby: What was the story?
Dave: Aha. Generally unhappy with life, as you can hear on the 911 tape, that he’s already made his intentions clear to his family that he’s at least thinking about it, and they lose sight of him for a period of time in the morning, and he goes out to the truck and sits in there and ends up killing himself. But I do remember it was still really emotional when I got out there, and it was at least an hour after you had gotten off the phone with him. And those are really somber scenes. Dan’s seen it in person. Carrie experiences it in the moment through a headset. But seeing that in real life is kind of the price we pay when we go out to those calls, and those things stick with you seeing family in that level of pain and anguish is a really humbling experience that a., not to say you’re honored to be there, but it’s like going to Arlington National Cemetery. I feel honored to be around people when they’re that vulnerable, but it’s not something to be celebrated.
Carrie: I feel what you’re saying. Yeah, that there’s an honor in being able to help in situations that are so emotional and overpowering?
Zibby: Well, you’re like a compassionate witness that can make decisions for somebody when they’re not of the mind to make decisions for themselves.
Dan: Anybody who’s been in this job for any amount of time has encountered tragedy and really graphic scenes with heartbroken family members and such. And I’m a big believer that we are put in those positions because we’re able to maybe carry that burden, and we are supposed to be with that person at that particular time to usher them along. And I’m a big believer in that. It’s helped me through a lot of pretty messed up situations that I’ve encountered in this job.
Zibby: Carrie, two of the three calls you brought in today were suicide calls.
Carrie: I think those are the types that kind of stick with me because there’s a sudden shock to them. The people who are left in the aftermath are, oh, what you’re dealing with. And there’s a range of emotions, there’s a range of pain, and I think those are powerful for me, they’re downers. [chuckles] You know there are fun calls that you take, and there are exciting calls, but to me, those are what are memorable. Those are what really stick with me.
Dave: We get sent out to suicidal subjects. There’s probably one a day,-
Carrie: They’re quite frequent.
Dave: -Where we get sent out to a person who’s having suicidal ideations. The common theme is nobody cares and they’re in this hole that they can’t get out of and it seems insurmountable. But there’s this loss of hope that seems to drive this spiral into this depression. But people do care and there’s help everywhere.
Yeardley: Yes, there is. And we actually have links on the resources and information page of our website.
Zibby: Well, this episode is most certainly going to stick with me. Thank you, Carrie, for letting us in on what it’s like to do your job.
[music]Yeardley: Carrie, thank you so much.
Carrie: Thank you.
Yeardley: Small Town Dicks is produced by Zibby Allen and Yeardley Smith and coproduced by Detectives Dan and Dave.
Zibby: This episode was edited by Logan Heftel, Yeardley Smith, and Zibby Allen.
Yeardley: Music for the show was composed by John Forrest. Our associate producer is Erin Gaynor. And our books are cooked and cats wrangled by Ben Cornwell.
Zibby: If you like what you hear and want to stay up to date with the show, head on over to smalltowndicks.com. And become our pal on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, @smalltowndicks. We love hearing from our Small Town Fam. So, hit us up.
Yeardley: Yeah. And also, we have a YouTube channel where you can see trailers for past and forthcoming episodes. And we’re part of Stitcher Premium now.
Zibby: That’s right. If you choose to subscribe, you’ll be supporting our podcast. That way, we can keep going to small towns across the country and bringing you the finest in rare true crime cases, told, as always, by the detectives who investigated them. Thanks for listening, Small Town Fam.
Yeardley: Nobody’s better than you.
[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription]