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There are people in the world who, no matter how many chances they get, behave with cruelty and indifference. In this episode, Detective Dave recounts his frustrations in dealing with just such a man named Jeremy, who seemed unable, or unwilling, to control his habit of abusing people he deemed weaker than himself, despite multiple “second chances.”

Guest: Detective Dave

Detective Dave recently retired from law enforcement in January 2022. He began his career in 2007 and served as a patrol officer until 2012. Dave spent the next six years as a detective where he primarily investigated sexual assaults and child abuse. Dave was promoted to Sergeant in 2018 and was reassigned to patrol, where he served for the remainder of his career. During his time in law enforcement he held special assignments to the Crisis and Hostage Negotiation Team, Child Fatality Review, the county’s deadly force investigation team, and served on the advisory boards of multiple children’s and victim’s advocacy groups.

Read Transcript

Yeardley: [00:00:03] Hey, Small Town Fam, it’s Yeardley. How are you? I hope you’re all well. I want to tell you a little bit about today’s episode. Much like police and fire, the job of nursing is one where they’re often meeting people on their worst day. And even if it’s someone’s best day, say, the healthy birth of a child, the stakes are incredibly high. So, when our own Detective Dave is called to his town’s local hospital by the head of the nursing staff on the orthopedic wing, he can’t imagine what it’s about, because in Dave’s experience, nurses are tough cookies. They don’t usually call for backup, unless it’s a mandatory reporter situation, and those usually come from the emergency room. So, Dave’s interest was definitely piqued.

[00:00:50] As I was doing my editing pass on this episode, I have to say I just settled in because, well, it’s our Dave, a consummate storyteller, who we all know consistently goes to the net for his victims. So, I just relaxed in the certainty that Dave would do the same in this case that he would make sure his victims felt seen and heard while doing everything in his power to see to it that the suspect was held accountable for his actions. So, here, with great pleasure, is The Last Straw.

[00:01:27] Hi, there. I’m Yeardley.

Dan: [00:01:29] I’m Dan.

Dave: [00:01:30] I’m Dave.

Paul: [00:01:31] And I’m Paul.

Yeardley: [00:01:32] And this is Small Town Dicks.

Dan: [00:01:34] Dave and I are identical twins.

Dave: [00:01:36] And retired detectives from Small Town, USA.

Paul: [00:01:38] And I’m a veteran cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden State Killer using a revolutionary DNA tool.

Dan: [00:01:44] Between the three of us, we’ve investigated thousands of crimes, from petty theft to sexual assault, child abuse to murder.

Dave: [00:01:51] Each case we cover is told by the detective who investigated it, offering a rare personal account of how they solved the crime.

Paul: [00:01:58] Names, places, and certain details have been changed to protect the privacy of victims and their families.

Dan: [00:02:03] And although we’re aware that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we ask you to please join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved-

Dave: [00:02:10] -out of respect for what they’ve been through.

[unison]: [00:02:13] Thank you.

Yeardley: [00:02:19] Today on Small Town Dicks, Small Town Fam, we have the usual suspects. We have Detective Dave.

Dave: [00:02:27] Hello, Yeardley.

Yeardley: [00:02:28] Hello, David. And we have Detective Dan.

Dan: [00:02:31] Go team.

Yeardley: [00:02:32] [laughs] Go team. And we have the one and only, Paul Holes.

Paul: [00:02:37] Hey, everybody.

Yeardley: [00:02:38] Hey. So, we’re very lucky today because this case comes to us from the A team, from our one and only Detective Dave.

Dave: [00:02:47] Yes.

Yeardley: [00:02:48] Dave, tell us how this case came to you.

Dave: [00:02:51] So, this case occurred several years ago. It was once I became a detective. The gist is patrol had gone out a day prior to a local hospital. We have two hospitals in our city, and this is the main, the biggest hospital, the newest hospital. Typically, when we get calls from a hospital, it’s the emergency room. In this case, the call came to us from the 6th floor of the hospital. Based on my experience, I knew that was the orthopedic section of the hospital and my assumption was, “Okay, well, it’s going to be somebody who had a surgery. Why am I going to the 6th floor?”

Yeardley: [00:03:29] Who made that call? The hospital itself?

Dave: [00:03:31] The call came to us from a nursing care coordinator at this hospital, and she was calling on behalf of her nursing team, and wanted to file a report regarding a patient who was still admitted to the hospital and staying on the 6th floor. The hospital staff had some pretty disturbing interactions with this patient. So, I read the report. The gist is a nurse complains to her shift supervisor and says, “This patient in this room just put his hands on me.” And wanted to report that and this was the last straw for this nursing staff, where they said, “All right, we’re calling the police because that’s way out of bounds.”

[00:04:17] However, prior to suspect, Jeremy– Jeremy’s in his 40s. Jeremy is not a nice person, and we’ll get into that shortly. But Jeremy was in the hospital to have hip replacement. He had a hip replacement surgery, say, on a Monday, and our police department received a call on a Wednesday, and I went out to investigate on a Thursday. So, we’re looking at about three-day timeline. Upon Jeremy’s admission to the hospital, nurses are taking care of Jeremy, getting him ready for his surgery. Once Jeremy is out of surgery, he goes back to his room and nurses begin to take care of him as they do. They do their rounds, check in on Jeremy.

[00:05:05] Each time the nurses come into Jeremy’s room, they notice a lot of activity below his waist, like, he’s masturbating under his blankets, nonstop, like, repeatedly. Anytime a nurse entered Jeremy’s room, he was masturbating. Their presence in Jeremy’s room did not ever deter him or stop him from masturbating. He would continue. And then Jeremy starts making comments to the nurses when they call him out and say, “Hey, knock it off. Stop doing that.” They’re very professional. They’re firm, and it’s clear like, “Don’t do that. Nobody wants to see that.” And Jeremy doesn’t care.

[00:05:45] So, day number one of Jeremy’s stay, post-op, Jeremy does a lot of masturbation. The following day, the determination is made, anytime we send nurse into Jeremy’s room, we’re going to have two nurses. They’re trying to be proactive, like, nobody knows what this guy’s up to. Jeremy soon gets a lot more crude than what he’s already done on day one. On day two, Jeremy is now inviting these nurses to join him and help him masturbate asking if they’ll have sex with him, offering to take them into the shower and have them shower with him and have sex with them. It’s absurd.

Yeardley: [00:06:27] Now, the obvious question is, since he’s had a hip replacement, I’m guessing there’s some pain management. Could it be the drugs talking?

Dave: [00:06:34] That was one of my main questions. Certainly, Jeremy’s got some pain management issues, but I later learned that Jeremy’s just been given moderate pain meds and sedatives. And part of that decision is, “Let’s make the patient comfortable. However, we don’t want to give Jeremy too many meds. We don’t know what that’s going to do to his behavior.” Like, “Is this going to escalate his behavior if we give him more substantial pain meds?”

Yeardley: [00:07:04] So, the behavior is already so bad that it’s already being taken into account going forward with his pain management.

Dave: [00:07:12] Correct. So, due to Jeremy’s hip replacement surgery, he is now confined to a walker. Jeremy needs quite a bit of assistance anytime he has to get up from his bed.

Yeardley: [00:07:26] Go to the restroom or–

Dave: [00:07:27] Exactly. There’s a moment on the third day of Jeremy’s stay, where the nurses enter his room and they notice that Jeremy is out of bed. His walker is nearby, but it’s not within arm’s distance of Jeremy, and Jeremy is awkwardly hunched over a chair in his hospital room. So, two nurses’ approach, both females. One of them is Mary. She is a longtime registered nurse, has probably seen it all in a hospital setting, and the person assisting her turns out to be a witness in this case, she’s got a similar background.

[00:08:05] These nurses have dealt with patients of all types and have been in this job for years. And later, both tell me, “Jeremy’s is the most egregious behavior they’ve ever seen in a hospital setting.” And I asked, “Have you ever called the police before, because of a patient’s behavior?” And both said, “I’ve never even been close to calling the police. It’s accepted in the medical industry. We’re going to deal with some difficult patients.” And they just grin and bear it. Their tolerance level is way higher than mine would be.

[00:08:42] Jeremy’s so bad that finally the nurses all agree, “We need to call the police.” And it’s prompted by these two nurses, Mary and her coworker, attempting to get Jeremy from this awkward position he is on this chair and go maybe 6ft or 7ft, and get him up to his bed where he can stabilize himself and then roll in the bed and they’ll tuck him in. Jeremy, during this interaction with the two nurses, begins pawing at and grabbing Mary’s breasts. It’s not accidental brushing up against. It’s intentionally reaching up with a hand and trying to grab Mary’s breasts. Mary addresses this very firmly right away and says, “That’s inappropriate. Keep your hands off me. I’m trying to help you.” And Jeremy basically propositions her and says, “Well, do you want to fuck?”

Yeardley: [00:09:35] Jesus.

Dave: [00:09:36] Both nurses are appropriately disgusted with Jeremy and they’re like, “No, don’t talk to us like that. We’re trying to help you. We’re going to get you to the bed, but you got to help us a little bit.” Like, “How’d you get over here?” So, Mary has already been firm and warned Jeremy, “I don’t want you to touch me. The project right now is to get you into bed.” Jeremy disregards the request or the order and grabs Mary’s breast again. And Mary brushes his hand away forcefully like, “Get your hands off me.” They back Jeremy over to the bed and Mary asks Jeremy, “Hey, can you just put your hands on the bed and stabilize yourself, and we’ll help with the rest?” Jeremy sits on the edge of the bed, and Mary is on his left side, the other nurse is on Jeremy’s right side, and Jeremy puts his hand on Mary’s upper thigh, and she says, “Get your hand off me,” and he immediately and aggressively goes up to Mary’s crotch and forcefully grabs her over the clothes, however.

Yeardley: [00:10:40] It’s assault.

Dave: [00:10:41] Absolutely. It’s a sexual assault. The intent is clearly there. Jeremy asks, “Hey, so you want to have sex with me now?” And Mary basically says, “Get your hands off me. We’re done. Get back into bed.” Both nurses leave the room and immediately go report this activity to the rest of the team. This prompts the hospital to now take Jeremy and move him to a different room, and then the new procedure with Jeremy is no female nurses in Jeremy’s room.

Yeardley: [00:11:15] Was Jeremy in a private room before they moved him to this new room?

Dave: [00:11:19] Jeremy’s in his own room, so nobody else had to be exposed to this. But the reason they moved Jeremy into a different room is this new room is the only room on the floor with video cameras in the room. My assumption is, it’s having a little bit of foresight and saying, “We might have patients that we need to keep a very close eye on.” The other is, “Maybe we have patients where we really have to monitor what’s going on in that room because of their health condition.” In this case, it’s because of Jeremy’s behavior. This new room is right beside the nurse’s station. So, there is always someone near Jeremy’s room now.

[00:12:02] Fortunately, Jeremy’s not very mobile. Jeremy’s confined to his bed and he’s not doing physical therapy where they’re trying to get him mobile and walk around the hallways or anything like that. It’s like, “Lay down in your bed.” I’m certain all the staff was ready for Jeremy to be good enough to get discharged from the hospital. So, our patrol officer went out to take the initial report. That’s the information he gathers. There are several witnesses that were present throughout the three days that Jeremy was in the hospital. The officer listened as report. These witnesses can speak to what Mary experienced and they also have their own experiences with Jeremy where they walk in and Jeremy’s masturbating or asking, “Hey, do you want to have sex with me?” He is exposing himself to nurses. When I read the report, I was like, “Are you kidding me?”

Yeardley: [00:12:58] And it’s always female nurses.

Dave: [00:13:00] Every female nurse that interacted with Jeremy had an interaction like this. Mary is the only nurse that Jeremy put his hands on.

Yeardley: [00:13:08] Do you think that was because of opportunity, because she was in proximity, she was close enough or because he fancied her?

Dave: [00:13:16] I’m not sure. I think it’s probably the proximity factor, but clearly, Jeremy has some impulse control issues. I’m going to go off on a little tangent. We talk about officers and their level of effort. In this case, I’ve got a sexual assault. Our patrol officer who went out there listed, “Hey, there’s lots of witnesses to this, but fails to speak to any of them, fails to get their names.” I address this with the officer the next day and I’m like, “Hey, I just got this report forwarded to me. It sounds like you got to the hospital right in the middle of this shift with all these nurses who work together. While you were there, did you happen to speak to any of the witnesses?” And this officer tells me, “Well, that’s not my job. That’s your job.”

Yeardley: [00:14:03] Wow.

Dave: [00:14:05] “Why didn’t you just get some names? You didn’t even have to interview them. I would like you to interview them, but at least give me some names.” This officer, early in his career, just did not apply the appropriate effort to this case and it was very frustrating. That issue was later corrected. That officer turned out to be one of the most reliable officers I’ve worked with, but early on– It comes down. It was an FTO, field training officer, taught him the wrong way, and you have to untrain that type of laziness. But the officer does not even contact Jeremy. I think he was thinking, “I’ll just kick this back to detectives and they can handle all the follow up.”

Dan: [00:14:46] At our department, there are specific instances where you wouldn’t do follow up in a situation like that, say, our victim is a juvenile. Our patrol officer isn’t going to do an interview with the juvenile, but I was taught very early on and so was Dave that, as a patrol officer, you exhaust all the follow up you can on the front end. And then if you can’t contact these other witnesses, that’s when that report gets forwarded to a detective and the detective does the follow up. But if you have witnesses that are there, you better talk to every one of them and list them in the report, their name, date of birth, contact info. It’s just inexcusable for that not to be done on the front end at your first point of contact, which is, as a patrol officer, you have to do it.

Dave: [00:15:36] The issue is, what if one of the witnesses is a traveling nurse, and that was her last shift. And now, I don’t even know who it was.

Yeardley: [00:15:45] And she’s gone.

Dave: [00:15:46] Right. “So, just give me the names, give me their contact information.” So, I was frustrated. I get this report and I go directly out to the hospital. I said, “Well, this is the same time frame of day that these nurses were working yesterday. I hope they’re there.” I lucked out. All the witnesses from the previous day were there. When I went to the hospital, I met with this nursing care coordinator who is the person who called the police and just basically got some general information about Jeremy, confirmed the date that he was admitted to the date that the hospital was planning to discharge him, which is the date that I arrived at the hospital. They were actually prepping Jeremy to get released. And so, I’m like, “Thank God, I came out here right now, because he would have been in the wind.”

Yeardley: [00:16:50] So, Dave, you get to the hospital to interview the nurses, and also to see who this dude Jeremy is, and you find out he’s going to be released that day. Is that because of his obscene behavior or is it because it’s time his hip is rehabbed enough hospital wise, and it’s time for him to go home?

Dave: [00:17:10] I think they considered Jeremy to be medically stationary enough that they could release him. I can’t prompt a doctor to release somebody. It only happens when the doctor is ready to release somebody.

Yeardley: [00:17:23] Yeah, of course. I guess, I wondered if the hospital was like, “Get this guy out of here. I don’t care where he goes.” But of course, they wouldn’t do that.

Dave: [00:17:33] Well, certainly, I think it’s reasonable to assume that somebody who doesn’t present the same types of behavior issues might get some grace with the timing of their discharge. In this case, it’s like, “Let’s get him to the point where we don’t have to treat him anymore and get him out of here.”

Yeardley: [00:17:49] Yeah.

Dave: [00:17:50] So, I meet with this nursing care coordinator and I say, “Hey, I need to speak to everybody that had interactions with Jeremy.” And she says, “Awesome.” I will start rounding them up, and the first person I speak to is Mary, and she relays all these things that had previously been relayed to the officer during the initial report. Story hasn’t changed. I’m like, “Okay, I know I’m going to arrest Jeremy.” So, I’m just building a case. The hospital marches four female nurses, one by one into a little office where I could speak with them, and all these nurses describe seeing Jeremy masturbating, him making crude comments about wanting to have sex with them, offering to have sex with them. It’s as if I took the same statement four times.

Yeardley: [00:18:43] But not in a way that was rehearsed.

Dave: [00:18:45] Right. It’s not rehearsed. It’s anytime, there was a nurse in Jeremy’s room. Jeremy had his hand on his penis and was masturbating. He was saying vile things to these professional women who are just trying to take care of him. And then, Mary has the unfortunate proximity to Jeremy where he can actually get his hands on her.

Dan: [00:19:05] Going back a little bit, I’m thinking about this walker that is 6ft, 7ft away from Jeremy, and Jeremy is in this awkward position leaning over this chair, and how deliberate that is.

Paul: [00:19:18] It’s really where the offender, I use this term over and over, lure and isolate. That’s what he’s doing is he’s staged something in order to be able to get these nurses to where now he is in physical contact with them.

Dave: [00:19:33] Right. So, I confirm with each of these nurses that Jeremy wasn’t provided any type of medication that they’ve ever seen result in this type of behavior, that he’s given a moderate sedative for his pain and they didn’t give him any other type of drug. There was no allergies or there’s no reaction from medications to prompt Jeremy to start behaving this way, and it’s only when female nurses are in the room. I interviewed two male nurses and neither of them had any of these types of interactions with Jeremy. It’s only when female staff is going in. And that’s important to me. If it’s just going on nonstop, regardless of who’s in the room, then I can say, “Okay, well, maybe this guy is just on a different planet right now.”

[00:20:24] In this case, it’s selective. It’s when a female nurse is in his room, and it’s masturbation, it’s, “Hey, knock that off.” And Jeremy looks at him like, “What are you going to do about it?” So, prior to going to Jeremy’s room to speak to him, I confirm with the hospital, he’s going to get released and you guys feel that it’s okay for him to go from here, the hospital to jail. And they say, “Yeah.” So, we always ask for, “Can I get an okay for jail slip?”

Yeardley: [00:20:54] [laughs]

Dave: [00:20:55] They actually write it on a script pad, “Okay for incarceration.”

Yeardley: [00:20:58] Really?

Paul: [00:20:59] I’ve never even heard of that process. He’s literally getting a prescription to go and get incarcerated.

Yeardley: [00:21:05] A doctor’s note [Paul laughs] to go to jail.

Dave: [00:21:07] That’s exactly what it is. It is well known that criminals, people in custody, malinger, they have all sorts of maladies that pop up right when handcuffs go on, and all of a sudden, they are too unhealthy to be incarcerated. So, I get out in front of that and I just say, “Doctor, is it going to impact Jeremy’s health at all, if he goes to jail once he gets discharged?” And the guy’s like, “All right, you know it right now.”

[00:21:35] So, I go to Jeremy’s room knowing I’m going to arrest Jeremy and I say, “Jeremy, I’m Detective Dave and I need to talk to you about some of your interactions over the past few days.” And Jeremy confirms that he has had some behavior issues. I ask him to explain why he’s had behavior issues while he was at the hospital, and Jeremy says, “The second day I was here, somebody slipped me some drugs.” He’s referring to illicit drugs, not like pain medication.

Yeardley: [00:22:08] And he means, “The second day I was in the hospital, somebody snuck in and gave me some illicit drugs”?

Dan: [00:22:14] Exactly. I actually went back to these nurses and said, “Did Jeremy have visitors?” And the nurses said, “He’s only had one visitor his entire stay. And it was a female. We all assumed, based on the interaction, it was probably Jeremy’s girlfriend. It was brief, but we know that this female handed Jeremy some sort of pipe, a glass pipe, and it turned out to be a marijuana pipe, and that Jeremy and this girlfriend had smoked marijuana in his room.”

Yeardley: [00:22:42] Is it legal to smoke marijuana in your hospital room?

Dave: [00:22:45] No, it is not. The behavior is so absurd, but in keeping with Jeremy’s– [crosstalk]

Yeardley: [00:22:52] Complete disregard for boundaries, rules, regulations.

Dave: [00:22:56] Exactly. That visit was very short, because it turned into an argument. The argument ended with a female yelling at Jeremy saying, “You tried to rape me.”

Paul: [00:23:06] Was she ever identified?

Dave: [00:23:08] No, and I attempted too. We have the means in our databases to find connections between people and I can map out kind of like genealogy. You can see who’s related to, not familial, but you can see who’s related to others via case numbers and known associates, and I couldn’t determine who this female was. So, I have no follow up. The only indication I have of Jeremy having something other than this moderate sedative is that he was dosed willingly. He smoked from the pipe some marijuana. That typically doesn’t manifest to groping people, serial masturbation, exposing yourself, that kind of thing. So, I start to believe this is probably a character issue with Jeremy. It just happened to be in a hospital, but he’s probably a jerk to everybody he knows.

[00:24:04] So, I’ve determined that some unknown female provided marijuana to Jeremy. I asked Jeremy about smoking marijuana, and Jeremy, all he says is, “Somebody slipped me some drugs.” And I said, “Well, who?” And he says, “That’s all I’ve got to say to you. I’m done.” I confirmed with him, “Are you invoking your right to remain silent?” And he said, “I am. Well, this interview is over.” And I said, “Well, let’s start getting you dressed, because you got a new hotel to go to.”

Yeardley: [00:24:31] [laughs]

Dave: [00:24:32] I called for a patrol officer, we put Jeremy in a wheelchair, and rolled him out to a patrol car, and helped him get into the backseat, and I transported Jeremy to jail. I charged Jeremy with a sexual assault in the first degree, and that charge is fairly substantial. That charge is 75 months in prison in my state.

Yeardley: [00:24:53] And you serve every day.

Dave: [00:24:54] And you serve every day. That’s an expensive, misbehavior issue. So, I charge Jeremy with sexual assault in the first degree. I also charge Jeremy with attempted sexual assault for reaching out in the times that he actually didn’t make contact with Mary’s breast but attempted. I charge him with attempted crimes. I also charge him with indecent exposure and disorderly conduct, alarming, threatening, or annoying behavior. Would you say that we check some boxes there?

Yeardley: [00:25:24] 100%. Check, check. check.

Dave: [00:25:27] That discon charge is my parting fuck you to Jeremy.

Yeardley: [00:25:31] Discon?

Dave: [00:25:32] Discon, disorderly conduct. And Jeremy goes to jail. His case involving Mary is adjudicated. Jeremy took a guilty plea for attempted sexual assault in the first degree. That was a deal that was offered to him.

Yeardley: [00:25:50] So, only the times he reached out to try to grab Mary’s breasts?

Dave: [00:25:54] Yeah. In the actual completed sexual assault where grabbing Mary’s crotch, I was like, “I’ve got a witness to this grabbing of the crotch.” I was like, “That’s going to be a home run.” The prosecutor, I think, rightly, had some concerns about sedatives, being administered marijuana that there would be some mitigating circumstances around Jeremy’s behavior that a jury might be sympathetic to. I wasn’t happy, but I understand prosecutors got a more difficult job than I do. They have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

[00:26:30] So, Jeremy is given what we call a downward departure on that sentence. And a downward departure or a suspended sentence, all that means is you have this sentence hanging over your head. “However, we are going to give you a second chance. You’re not going to go to prison. But if you break the law, that suspended sentence now becomes an active sentence and you’re going to go to prison and you’re going to serve prison time for what you would have gotten.”

Yeardley: [00:26:57] Do you have to be caught committing the same crime that you’re sentenced to or let’s say, Jeremy gets a DUI?

Dave: [00:27:05] Any crime. So, any crime, any conviction will send Jeremy back to prison.

Yeardley: [00:27:11] Okay.

Dave: [00:27:26] So, after lodging Jeremy in jail, I did some digging on Jeremy, and I discovered some more alarming issues that aren’t sex abuse related. Jeremy, several years prior to my contact with him, he had a dog, kind of a mutt dog, but it was a large dog. And Jeremy had trained this dog using Spanish to attack people. So, Jeremy’s got a previous conviction on his record, and it’s for second degree assault, and that case is going to make you roll your eyes. Jeremy enticed two teenage boys to come into his backyard, and Jeremy shut the gate and remained outside the fence and gave his dog an attack command in Spanish. And both these boys were bitten very severely by Jeremy’s dog.

Yeardley: [00:28:24] What the fuck?

Dave: [00:28:25] Horrible, right?

Yeardley: [00:28:26] What is the point of that? Like, Is that sport? What is that innate of? What, Paul? What is it?

Paul: [00:28:34] This is a very unusual circumstance where he’s using this dog as a weapon. I’m not entirely sure what to make of that in terms of assessing Jeremy, especially knowing we’ve got this sexual assault aspect to him. This is where he’s enjoying watching these boys being under the attack of the dog, the injuries, their fear. There’s something there that is odd. I wonder, is it possible that maybe Jeremy used these boys just as a training session to see if the dog would actually do it?

Dave: [00:29:14] I had that thought, like, is this like, “Hey, we’ve been training. Let me see if I can put it into action.” I did a little bit more digging about this conviction and I found a previous police report that happened about a month prior to these boys getting bitten, where Jeremy had his dog on a leash, and was out in public in a store parking lot, and Jeremy saw a female, a total stranger. There’s no interaction, there’s no argument or anything. And Jeremy gives his dog the attack command and his dog tries to attack this woman. You’re just like, “Okay, now I’ve got another pattern with a dog. We have the pattern with masturbation, we have multiple dog attacks.” This woman was able to fend off the dog and was not injured. She did get jumped on by this dog and was almost bitten.

[00:30:06] Jeremy had his dog taken away from him for a period of time. Jeremy went to jail, for the first dog attack on the female in the store parking lot. The dog went to animal control. One attack is not necessarily enough to say that it’s a vicious dog, if it’s a horribly vicious attack. That’s one thing. But a dog biting someone doesn’t necessarily get the dog flagged as a vicious dog. Certainly, Jeremy would be unable to claim, “I don’t know what my dog’s capable of,” because Jeremy’s taught it Spanish and taught it commands to attack, and Jeremy’s seen it in action.

Paul: [00:30:46] Just for the sequence of these two separate dog attacks, was the woman before the two boys?

Dave: [00:30:54] Yes, about a month prior.

Paul: [00:30:55] And she’s out there walking, were there potentially other people– other, like, let’s say, men also present?

Dave: [00:31:02] I don’t know that.

Yeardley: [00:31:03] But if she’s at the grocery store, chances are, there’s all kinds of people there, right?

Paul: [00:31:07] That’s just what I’m wondering, if did he select her or was it just she was the one opportunity?

Dave: [00:31:15] My belief is that she was a target of opportunity that she’s the only one around and he targets this woman. There’s no way to say why, like, how do you justify that?

Yeardley: [00:31:28] It’s so intentional. It’s so vicious.

Dave: [00:31:31] Jeremy is questioned by an officer. When the two teenage boys were attacked by Jeremy’s dog, the officer did quite a bit of follow up. And a lot of his follow up was just to defeat any alibi or excuses that Jeremy had made during questioning. And Jeremy claims, “You know, I didn’t do anything to those boys. I wasn’t even present for the attack. I was actually in jail when those boys were attacked, and that’s what they get for breaking into my backyard.” These boys were very clear like, “No. He asked us, ‘Hey, you guys want to come into my backyard?’ And then he closes the door and sicced his dog on them.” It’s very specific. So, this officer does some follow up and goes, “Oh, no, Jeremy, you had this previous incident in the store parking lot with a woman. Your dog was taken by animal control.”

[00:32:24] The day before the boys are attacked, Jeremy and a friend go to animal control, and the dog is released back to him. Jeremy picked his dog up from animal control, and one day later, Jeremy is assaulting the two boys with his dog.

Yeardley: [00:32:39] He’s doing it again.

Dave: [00:32:40] Right. So, that’s the caliber of person we’re talking about. It’s terrifying when you’re getting bitten by a dog. Absolutely terrifying.

Dan: [00:32:49] Jeremy sounds like a sociopath to me.

Dave: [00:32:51] He loves to see people in pain and in fear.

Yeardley: [00:32:54] Yeah.

Paul: [00:32:54] I would say, if he is enjoying watching the boys be attacked and the violence that’s being inflicted on them, in some ways, that’s a sadistic act. He likes that he’s inflicting the pain and watching their fear, their response. I’m still just puzzled to see, “Well, what was his intent moving forward with this dog?” Was he going to be utilizing this dog to maybe subdue a potential victim?

Dave: [00:33:25] No idea. Yeah.

Paul: [00:33:26] It’s so bizarre.

Dave: [00:33:27] So, there’s a peek into Jeremy’s background. The story’s not over. Jeremy got this suspended sentence for his attack on Mary. Jeremy was given– Basically, he’s on supervision, and he’s got this suspended sentence hanging over him, and he knows, Jeremy knows, if I commit a crime, I’m going.

Dan: [00:33:49] Did he do prison time for the dog attack on the two teenage boys?

Dave: [00:33:53] Jeremy did do prison time for the dog attack on the teenage boys, and was only out of prison a short time before Jeremy is in the hospital to get a hip replacement. So, the case with Mary happened after Jeremy gets out of prison. I don’t give Jeremy much thought until I get a call from an officer in our neighboring jurisdiction. This detective named Rick that Dan and I are very familiar with.

Dan: [00:34:21] Worked a lot of cases with him. He’s great to work with. Awesome guy.

Dave: [00:34:24] Great guy.

Dan: [00:34:25] Hi, Rick. I know you’re listening. He does listen to the podcast.

Yeardley: [00:34:28] Oh. [laughs] Hooray.

Dave: [00:34:30] Rick says, “Hey, are you familiar with this guy named Jeremy?” And I said, “Yeah, I’m very aware of that guy.” “Well, he was a victim of a robbery last night. And during this robbery, Jeremy got roughed up a little bit, including dislocating his hip.”

Yeardley: [00:34:48] The one that was just replaced?

Dave: [00:34:49] Correct. So, Jeremy’s having a tough day. Rick looks at Jeremy’s past and comes across my police report involving Mary. And Rick says, “We’ve got to take our victim to the hospital to get treated for this dislocated hip.” And Rick reads my report and says, “Well, I’m not dropping him off and leaving the hospital without at least letting them know, be careful around this guy. He has a thing for nurses.” So, Rick relays the information to the nursing staff at the other hospital in our city. So, Jeremy is admitted to a separate hospital. He’s in the emergency room and it’s overnight. So, I come into work the following day. Rick is giving me a heads up, “Hey, check out this police report.” He just refers me to his police report where Jeremy was a victim of a robbery. I’m like, “Oh, too bad.” And he goes, “By the way, I let him know about your past case, just so they have a heads up.”

Yeardley: [00:35:54] At this second hospital.

Dave: [00:35:55] Correct. And I appreciated that. Rick didn’t have to do that. He didn’t have to look up my old case, but he did. Kind of cop Rick is. Really liked working with him. When you got a case from Rick, you’re like, “I already know this is going to be well put together. This is going to be a solid investigation.” Rick’s one of those guys. When I learn that Jeremy is probably still at the emergency room at this new hospital, I pick up the phone and I call the hospital, and I say, “Hey, this is Detective Dave.” And I was hoping to speak to the charge nurse or somebody who’s in charge of the ER to find out about Jeremy. This woman says, “Oh, Jeremy, hang on a second. I’ll get you somebody to talk to.”

[00:36:43] I speak to a shift supervisor or somebody in the ER, and that person, I just ask, “Is Jeremy still in the emergency room?” And the person I spoke to said, “Actually, he is.” And I said, “Just curious, what kind of interactions have you had with Jeremy today?” And she says, “Well, let me tell you.” I learned that Jeremy hasn’t learned any lessons that Jeremy has been a serial masturbator while at this new hospital and that they have already, within a few hours of his admission to the ER, have made it where only male nurses are allowed into Jeremy’s room.

Paul: [00:37:25] Well, and think about this. He’s at the hospital with a dislocated hip. This is a pretty serious type of damage that’s going on to his body and he’s still masturbating while his body is dealing with that?

Dave: [00:37:40] Correct.

Paul: [00:37:40] This is a level of compulsion.

Dave: [00:37:42] Yeah. So, I said, “Is Jeremy getting discharged anytime soon?” And they said, “Basically, we can’t wait to get him out of here. Yeah, we’re going to be discharging him.” And I said, “Can you just delay that just a moment? I’m going to be there in about five minutes.” And I grab Detective Justin and I say, “Hey, I got a project. Let’s go to the hospital.” And Justin’s like, “Let’s go.” So, Detective Justin, who’s been on the podcast before, he and I go to the hospital, and it just so happens the officer who transported Jeremy to jail, the first time I met Jeremy is also working, Robert. So, Robert also offers, “Hey, I’d love to join you guys. [Yeardley laughs] I want to meet him again.” So, I’ve got Detective Justin, I’ve got Officer Robert, who’s a longtime cop, and they’re both like, “Is this guy going to jail?” And I said, “Well, I don’t know yet, but I cannot wait,” because I know Jeremy has this downward departure, suspended sentence hanging over his head.

Yeardley: [00:38:42] That’s right.

Dave: [00:38:43] I stress the cops all the time, “If you don’t get them today, trust me, they’re going to show up on a police report where you’re going to be able to get them in the future. So, we don’t have to rush anything,” like, “I know I’m going to meet Jeremy again.”

Dan: [00:38:56] And so, with the masturbation, we’ve got some indecency.

Dave: [00:39:01] Well, for private or public indecency, I have to have a witness or a victim to this behavior. The genitals have to be visible. So, I’ve had cases in the past where somebody gets called in for a public indecency where they’re masturbating, but their hand is down their pants. It’s clear what they’re doing, but no skin is visible. So, I can’t get to that charge, which is a weakness in that law. Like, if you’re masturbating in public and it’s very clear, that should be a crime.

Yeardley: [00:39:30] Yes.

Dave: [00:39:31] But it is disorderly conduct. Disorderly conduct, alarming, threatening or annoying behavior, I would say masturbating in public would be one of those. So, Detective Justin, Robert, and I arrive at the hospital and I seek out the nurse who reported this interaction with Jeremy. Her name is Holly. Holly is a 12-year registered nurse. Six years in our local area, previous six years out on the East Coast at a very notorious jail, Rikers Island.

Yeardley: [00:40:02] Oh.

Paul: [00:40:03] Oh, okay.

Dave: [00:40:04] Holly has seen a lot. Holly has worked with inmates before. She’s worked in a correctional setting. She admits, “I’ve been attacked by inmates before.” And I say, “Well, how was your interaction with Jeremy today?” And she says, “Well, let me tell you. Despite my past, I’ve never been more terrified in a room with a patient before as I am with this man here, Jeremy.” And she said, “It’s not like I come from a naive and soft history.” She was visibly shaken, regarding her interaction with Jeremy.

Yeardley: [00:40:39] Do you think it was his utter disregard for her feelings and her request to make him stop, or is he physically imposing? I’m curious about that, because if you’ve been a nurse at Rikers Island, it seems you’ve seen a lot. And Jeremy is, he’s a fucking pig, but he has a broken hip.

Dave: [00:41:00] Yeah. Jeremy is not physically imposing. He has a very punchable face, I would say.

Yeardley: [00:41:06] [laughs]

Dave: [00:41:08] Jeremy looks like he’s an asshole and Jeremy looks mean. I think this nurse, Holly, probably is fairly good at reading people, and her senses were heightened around Jeremy. I think she understands what evil feels like when she’s in the presence of evil because of her past, and I think she recognized, “This is not a good person that I’m trying to treat.”

Dan: [00:41:37] I talk about Spidey sense. There’s an energy you pick up that you recognize, there’s something different about someone. And you’ve been in those situations before and just something about somebody triggers a memory or a feeling in you and you just recognize, “This is not good.”

Yeardley: [00:41:55] I totally get that.

Paul: [00:41:56] I truly believe women have an intuition. Probably, it was something to help survive. If a woman is telling me this guy is, “I don’t like him,” I think she’s picking up on something that maybe I wouldn’t pick up on.

Dave: [00:42:09] Correct.

Yeardley: [00:42:10] That’s really true. It was only once in my life– Maybe twice, but one that I can remember where this man was a friend of a friend. They’d been friends for ages. Everybody in that group really liked this guy and I’m like, “This is not a good guy. There’s something really dark and dangerous there.” And they’d be like, “Yeardley, come on. It’s just blah, blah, blah.” And I’m like, “Nope, not okay.”

Dan: [00:42:34] And anybody who’s listening out there and you get that sense, listen to it, don’t ignore it.

Yeardley: [00:42:39] Right.

Dave: [00:42:41] So, I speak with Holly and get additional information. I want to know, “Do I have a crime today?” And Holly lets me know. Jeremy got admitted a few hours prior to her arrival at the hospital. Holly went into Jeremy’s room to apply some cardiac monitoring pads to Jeremy’s chest. Holly says, while she’s applying these pads, Jeremy had blankets all the way up to basically his stomach area, and she says during the application of these pads, she looks down, and now she sees Jeremy’s fully erect penis right there.

Yeardley: [00:43:19] He’s exposed.

Dave: [00:43:20] He’s exposed. And I said, “Would you say that he was sexually aroused?” And she said, “Absolutely.” She confirmed, “Fully erect penis.” I’ve got my indecent exposure.” So, I’m like, “Jeremy’s going.” I ask, “Was there anything said between Jeremy and you at the time that Jeremy exposes his penis to you?” And Holly says, “There’s nothing said, but Jeremy looked up at me with a, ‘What do you think about that type look?’ When you hear that, you’re like, ‘I can picture that.'” So, I’m like, “All right, we’re good.” I’ve got public indecency, and Jeremy’s probably going to prison. So, I go to Jeremy’s room. Jeremy sees me, drops his head. I said, “Do you remember me, Jeremy?” And he says, “Yep.” I said, “Well, it looks like we got to talk again.”

[00:44:11] I’m fully expecting him to invoke his right to remain silent. That’s our past interaction. But Jeremy is talkative. And I asked Jeremy a series of questions, just basically enough to check the boxes. I wasn’t going to belabor this interview. I already know I own him dead to rights, Jeremy is in deep shit. So, I advise Jeremy of Miranda. Jeremy is willing to speak. I say, “Hey, I just spoke to a female nurse here, and what do you think she had to tell me?” And Jeremy is, like, nonplussed, like, “I have no idea what she would tell you.” And I said, “Well, Jeremy, this nurse says that you exposed yourself. Can you explain that?” I said, “Is she lying?” And Jeremy says, “She has no reason to lie about that, but I don’t remember doing that.” And I said, “Well, what kind of drugs or medication are you on, Jeremy?” And I’m thinking methamphetamine, I’m thinking marijuana. And Jeremy says, “Well, nothing other than whatever the hospital gave me.”

[00:45:16] So, I later on check Jeremy’s discharge paperwork, and he’s been given a “moderate sedative,” which matches up with what he was given his previous time at the other hospital. I ask nursing staff later, “Hey, what kind of behavior issues does this moderate sedative give patients?” And they said, “Oh, it’s basically for pain. We’ve never seen anybody go sideways with it. We noticed that when we made it where only male nurses could go into Jeremy’s room, we weren’t having any issues. It was only when female nurses were in Jeremy’s room.” And I’m like, “Okay, once again.” So, in speaking with Jeremy, I said, “You’re a man. You have a wife, a sister, a mother, etc. How would you feel if they were working in a nursing setting and they came home and told you that some male patient had shown his erect penis to them?” And he said, “I’d beat the shit out of him.”

Yeardley: [00:46:18] [laughs]

Dave: [00:46:19] I’m like, “That’s a great statement. Awesome.” I asked, “Jeremy, do you know the difference between right and wrong?” Like, I’m speaking to a child. And he says, “Yes, I know the difference between right and wrong.” And I said, “Well, then why are you exposing yourself to a nurse again? Why am I here?” And he goes, “Because I’m fucking stupid.”

Yeardley: [00:46:43] [laughs]

Dave: [00:46:45] And then he lawyers up.

Yeardley: [00:46:46] Wow.

Dan: [00:46:47] He really is stupid. [laughs] He lawyered up after making that statement. He is stupid.

Paul: [00:46:52] I know you dug into his past. You found the dog stuff. Was there any other law enforcement contacts, exhibitionism, anything like that in his past?

Dave: [00:47:02] I couldn’t find any of that.

Yeardley: [00:47:03] Or, violence?

Dave: [00:47:04] No. Other than siccing dogs on kids. I don’t have any explanation. I don’t know why Jeremy’s doing what he’s doing. His past is what I’ve painted it out to be. This issue with the boys and the dog, the first time I ever meet Jeremy at the hospital, and then this occasion. I don’t know where it’s coming from. So, Jeremy looked at me and said, “So, what’s going to happen?” And I said, “You’re going to jail.” And he screamed.

Yeardley:[00:47:29] “Fuck.”

Dave: [00:47:30] Because he knew. He knew what it meant.

Dave: [00:47:47] So, Jeremy is placed under arrest at the hospital. We roll him out to the car, transport him back to our municipal jail, and he’s lodged for a misdemeanor count of public indecency.

Yeardley: [00:48:00] Which is the thing that’s going to trigger the suspended sentence, “No longer suspended, you’re going to jail.”

Dave: [00:48:06] Correct. So, at our jail, we have female nurses that work medical calls in the jail. So, I had to go warn them, “Hey, by the way, this guy is going to be lodged at the jail and you guys need to be very, very careful around Jeremy.” And I don’t have any reported issues about Jeremy doing anything. I think it’s probably because they always had a male correction officer probably present during any interaction with the nursing staff. So, the day following Jeremy’s arrest, I get a call from parole and probation, and it’s Jeremy’s probation officer. I’ve worked with her on many cases and she says, “Is it true? I got your report. Is it really true?” And I said, “Oh, yeah. I know he’s got this suspended sentence.” And she says, “Yes, he does, and now he’s going to serve it.” And like, “Hey, let’s get this guy to where he belongs.”

Yeardley: [00:49:05] And had she had any attempted sexual encounters with him?

Dave: [00:49:09] I don’t have any indication that Jeremy was speaking to his PO like he speaks to nurses.

Dan: [00:49:16] She’s got too much power over him.

Yeardley: [00:49:18] I guess so. But you would think that if the compulsion was that strong, he wouldn’t be able to control the impulse to select his victims in that way.

Paul: [00:49:26] Well, I do wonder about outside of the hospital, what his activities are out there in just the world. It seems like he’s going to be the guy that’s walking up and down the aisles in a grocery store looking at women and masturbating.

Yeardley: [00:49:43] Why wouldn’t he be?

Paul: [00:49:45] Right. Unless there is a fantasy he has about nurses, which he is now living his fantasy by being in the hospital. Obviously, the first case with Mary and the number of incidents that were occurring then, and then to be so stupid to just do the exposure at the second hospital where now he’s looking at prison time, it really just underscores. I think he lives his life in this space. I don’t think it’s just in the hospital. He only got caught in the hospital doing this type of crime.

Dave: [00:50:21] Absolutely agree.

Dan: [00:50:22] You know a lot more about this than I do, Dave. Just because of your experience, not because of–

Dave: [00:50:26] I was going to say.

Dan: [00:50:27] Because of you as a person.


Dan: [00:50:30] I was the patrol officer who responded to an indecent exposure one time at a hair salon. And this particular guy, he had never been in this salon before. This woman is cutting his hair. She’s like, “It was odd, because most of my clients are regulars. So, I see them all the time and I’d never seen this guy before and he was a walk in.” She said that as she was cutting his hair, she’s concentrating on his hair and his head, and he is looking up at her, trying to make eye contact with her so much so that she’s like, “Hey, you got to tilt your head forward, so I can cut your hair.” But he keeps doing it. And then she notices the up and down under the apron.

Yeardley: [00:51:11] Ugh.

Dan: [00:51:11] So, she is horrified and she’s terrified at the same time, because she’s in the salon by herself. And so, she’s got him facing toward the mirror and she’s like, “I know he’s going to keep doing that. I just want to cut his hair and get him out of here.” She turns the chair around, so he can’t see the mirror that’s in front of him and she waits for him to do it again. He actually, at one point, had lifted the cape to expose his groin. And she took a photo.

Paul: [00:51:42] Oh, wow.

Yeardley: [00:51:42] Oh.

Dan: [00:51:43] She took a photo and he scrambles out of the chair and runs away. Well, I got him on surveillance video and we were able to identify him. I went to his house and was like, “Hey, we need to go have chat.” I brought him down to the station, and Detective Jeff, Dave’s mentor, when he first began his career, Jeff interviewed this guy. This guy had to know that there was a photo out there, but he denied, denied, denied and then Jeff sprung the trap on him and said, “You know, she took a photo of you, right?”

Dave: [00:52:17] I’ve dealt with more of these public indecency violators than I remember. A lot of them. There’s a common thread. There’s a couple of these guys that I’ve gotten reports where their name comes across my desk once every six or seven months. When you contact, then they say, “Well, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I didn’t do that.” Or, it’s denials. One of these guys, I remember him in particular, I said, “Why do you think you keep landing on my desk? Why do people keep reporting, you specifically, as a person who’s masturbating out in public or exposing themselves?” And he says, “Man, I don’t know.” I said, “Do you know how many times my name’s been on a police report where I was reportedly masturbating in public?” And he looked at me expectantly like, “You too?”

Yeardley: [00:53:07] [laughs]

Dave: [00:53:07] And I said, “Zero. Zero times, man. You keep getting called in as a serial masturbator.” And this guy’s like, “They’re lying. I would never do that.” “But where there’s smoke, there’s fire, right? It’s not a mistake that you’re getting identified.”

Paul: [00:53:23] This guy came to my attention because he was a suspect. We were having sex workers being killed. They’re being picked up off of a prime stroll area in the east end of the county. And so, there is a lot of enhanced patrol as well as a lot of vice stings going on. This guy, huge man. 6’3″ to 6’5″, over 300 pounds. Patrol is literally finding this guy sitting in his car. He’s naked, completely coated in Vaseline, and he’s masturbating watching the sex workers apply their trade. And he was caught multiple times. He just kept doing it. This shows that compulsion. He knows patrols out there. To this day, I can’t say he’s eliminated from the homicides.

[00:54:09] This is where when you do have your exhibitionist or somebody like a Jeremy or the guy in the barber chair, that victim doesn’t know that’s going to be the only thing he’s going to do. This could be a preamble to the next step that he’s going to do. He’s gearing up. Some of these guys are going to take the next step.

Yeardley: [00:54:30] Right.

Dan: [00:54:31] They have to, because they’re not getting the same stimulus out of it. So, they escalate and they escalate until next thing, it’s touching someone. I mean, we all know how this progresses and ultimately, people are getting raped and murdered. That’s why if you see something out there, listener, you notice somebody doing this out in public, call the police, because we recognize that it’s a huge red flag.

Dave: [00:54:56] It is. And just going back to these nurses, just in general, I was asking questions like, “Do you guys deal with this kind of crap often?” They’re like, “Well, not to this degree, but you’d be surprised at how rude, how handsy. You’d be surprised at what we actually put up with in here. For us to actually call the police means it’s so far out that we finally were like, ‘Well, the only way to handle this is to get a police officer involved.”‘ And I said, “Well, you’re aware you don’t have to put up with this shit.” And they’re like, “Well, it just goes with the job.”

[00:55:32] Nurses are some of the greatest people that we meet in our job. They’re there to help you. They’re doing work I couldn’t do, because the first time somebody pulled shit like Jeremy, I’d have been like, “You’re done. I’m done taking care of you.” And they just tolerate it. So, I told each hospital, I said, “If you guys ever have anything remotely offensive, anything that bothers you, call us. We’ll come out and handle it.” And they were like, “Yeah, this is the first time I’ve ever called the police in my 20 years.”

Yeardley: [00:56:07] “I hope it’s the last.”

Dave: [00:56:08] Right. But I was surprised at how much nurses, hospital staff, doctors, how much crap they have to deal with. They just do it because they’re professionals and they say, “Yeah, it goes with the job.”

Yeardley: [00:56:22] These are people on their worst day.

Dave: [00:56:24] Right.

Yeardley: [00:56:24] It’s not unlike what you all do.

Dave: [00:56:26] Yeah. And I just like, “Call us. I would love to come out and deal with each person that violates your sensibilities. I want to deal with them. So, feel free to call.”

Dan: [00:56:39] At the very least, it’s going to be a counseling session.

Dave: [00:56:41] Exactly.

Dan: [00:56:42] You are on the borderline of committing some crimes, and you need to be aware of that, if you aren’t already.

Yeardley: [00:56:47] You, the offending patient.

Dave: [00:56:49] Yeah. And what I loved about my old partner, Jeff, he used to have this phrase, he would say like, “I’m going to go crawl up into this guy’s face,” which means “I’m confronting this asshole, because nobody else has.” And Jeff was really good at it. Jeff was an imposing figure with a deep, deep voice and command presence when he’s in a room. I used to love watching Jeff interact with sex offenders. Jeff knows that group so well because he investigated sex crimes and child abuse for over 20 years of his career, like, an exceptional career. I couldn’t do it that long.

Yeardley: [00:57:26] Frankly, I don’t think most people could do it that long. I don’t think most people could last a day on that particular law enforcement assignment. Dave, before we go, did Jeremy end up getting the full 75 months of his downward departure sentence, because that was going to be the price he had to pay if he committed another crime like this?

Dave: [00:57:48] No, because it was an attempted. He pled to attempted sexual abuse in the first degree. So, he wouldn’t have been eligible for this 75 months. It would have been probably half of that. So, Jeremy went to prison for a period of time, and I did a little digging on him today and Jeremy is deceased.

Yeardley: [00:58:07] Oh.

Dave: [00:58:08] Yeah. I looked for an obituary trying to figure out how did Jeremy die, where did he die, was it in custody? I don’t know. I don’t have those answers. So, a quick wrap up. Sorry, but [chuckles] it is what it is.

Yeardley: [00:58:23] I’m always surprised to hear that a suspect is dead when nothing in the story indicates that they’re going to die. You know what I mean? I think maybe part of that is because you’re sitting down with us right now telling us this story. So, Jeremy and his crimes feel really immediate. So, yeah, that is abrupt, but at least he’s not out wreaking havoc and exposing himself. Dave, as always, I love it when you bring us a case. You guys are the best, the A team. There’s just nothing better. Thank you for everything, for your service as a sex crimes and child abuse detective, and for being one of the best cohosts, a cohost could ever ask for.

Dave: [00:59:08] My pleasure.

Dan: [00:59:09] Good job, bro. Twin.

Paul: [00:59:11] Yeah, thanks, Dave.

Yeardley: [00:59:18] Small Town Dicks is produced by Gary Scott and Yeardley Smith, and coproduced by Detectives Dan and Dave. This episode was edited by Soren Begin, Gary Scott, and me, Yeardley Smith. Our associate producers are Erin Gaynor and the Real Nick Smitty. Our music is composed by John Forest. Our editors extraordinaire are Logan Heftel and Soren Begin, and our books are cooked and cats wrangled by Ben Cornwell.

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