Yeardley:  Hey, Small Town Fam. It’s Yeardley. I want to remind you that if you want access to bonus episodes and regular episodes a day early and ad free, and our community forum and other behind-the-scenes goodies, you got to go to smalltowndicks.com/superfam. And then in the top righthand corner, hit that little tab that says join. And then listen to the end of today’s episode for a sneak peek at today’s new bonus episode.

[music]

 Hey, Small Town Fam. It’s Yeardley. Welcome back to Part 2 and the conclusion of Running to Ground. Here’s a recap.

Dave:  This mother and her six-year-old daughter are grocery shopping, and the little girl nudges her mom. Like, “What’s that man doing?” 5ft away is a guy named Robert. And Robert is vigorously masturbating beneath his sweatpants. I start digging on Robert and what I find is terrifying. Robert is classified as a predatory sex offender, like, top of the food chain sex offender. The employee saw Robert walking down the street with a six-year-old girl in tow. And this guy said, “Over my dead body, that guy. I’ve seen him masturbate in front of kids before. There’s no way he should have a six-year-old with him.” I ask Robert, “Who is Miranda to you?” And he says, “Oh, that’s my goddaughter and it’s Kristen’s daughter and she needed some help with childcare, so every once in a while, I help her out.”

 I call Kristen and she’s confused, like, “Why is a detective calling me?” And I spill the beans to her. And Kristen was appropriately going full mama bear. Kristen’s phone starts blowing up and it’s Robert calling and texting her. Kristen was freaked out. Kristen gathered her daughter and a couple overnight bags, and they went to stay at a different house with friends. Like, emergency, “Get me out of here.” And when Kristen gets home, she realized her house been burglarized overnight.

[Small Town Dicks theme]

Yeardley:  Hi, there. I’m Yeardley.

Dan:  I’m Dan.

Dave:  I’m Dave.

Paul:  And I’m Paul.

Yeardley:  And this is Small Town Dicks.

Dan:  Dave and I are identical twins-

Dave:  -and retired detectives from Small Town, USA.

Paul:  And I’m a veteran cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden State Killer using a revolutionary DNA tool.

Dan:  Between the three of us, we’ve investigated thousands of crimes, from petty theft to sexual assault, child abuse to murder.

Dave:  Each case we cover is told by the detective who investigated it, offering a rare, personal account of how they solved the crime.

Paul:  Names, places, and certain details have been changed to protect the privacy of victims and their families.

Dan:  And although we’re aware that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we ask you to please join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved-

Dave:  -out of respect for what they’ve been through.

[unison]:  Thank you. 

Yeardley:  So Dave, at the end of Part 1, we left off with Kristen and Miranda’s house having been broken into overnight while they were away staying with a friend because Kristen was afraid that Robert might show up on her doorstep unannounced. And I can’t say I disagree with her there. But before we pick up at the break in, I actually have a question. I was thinking about Robert’s sex offense history. To me, as a layperson, it was interesting that Robert started his sex offense career, at least he got caught the first time with a young girl. Then he got caught again offending on college girls. Then he gets caught again offending on a young girl Miranda. Dave, you often talk about a person has a particular strike zone. I would say the difference between a six-year-old child and the body of a 19-year-old is quite different. So what do you make of this sort of everybody’s included in my sex offender preference of Robert.

Dave:  I’m going to take a stab at this, and then I’m going to pass it off to our resident expert. I’m not committed to this theory, but it is a theory is that Robert, decades ago, is not 100% sure of what he’s interested in or wants. And so I think without knowing if he committed crimes before or after that particular crime, before he went to prison for his first stint, I’m not sure what Robert looks like back in the 1970s and 1980s. I know that fast forward to when I’m dealing with Robert well into the 2000 teens, Robert’s 40 years older. Robert’s not as nimble, spry, or physically capable as he would have been in his 20s. And so with this predatory sex offender tag, you have to remain fairly under the radar. You have to manipulate, you have to gain trust, you have to get back into your grooming game plan. And my theory is that’s what Robert was doing. In the years that Robert was off parole, I think Robert had to find a new way that worked for him in his age and his progression of whatever he deals with internally, that Robert had kind of tailored what he did to where he was in life.

Yeardley:  Right. To go back to a totally defenseless six-year-old.

Dave:  Right. And somebody who was placed with him.

Yeardley:  Well said, Paul.

Paul:  Kind of taking a look at, because the first abduction sexual assault was on that 10-to-11-year-old girl back in the late 1970s when Robert was roughly in his 20s, mid-20s, somewhere in there. And then in the 80s, that’s when he’s going after these college girls in a similar type of attack strategy.

Yeardley:  They grab, assault and run away.

Paul:  Mm-hmm. All we know about Robert now, you know 2012, 2014, it appears that he’s going after the young girls. And to just take a look at the spectrum of the age of the girls, I would characterize him as there is a crossover offender type because we see this with serial predators, is they will choose victims that do vary in age, sometimes in gender, and this is where we get that crossover offending. I’ve used these terms before, you’ve got your situational versus preferential child molesters, these types of individuals, like Robert. I believe his true sexual inclination is the young girls. However, that’s when the situation presents itself versus he can still attack, like the college age women.

Yeardley:  Because those women are out in the world unsupervised.

Paul:  Exactly. Now you have your preferential child molesters and they will really just stick with what they prefer, which is whatever age group it is. And with Robert, it looks like you’re dealing with prepubescent age girls. So my sense is Robert, over the course of his life, is a situational child molester, but his sexual preference is the really young girls.

Yeardley:  Right. That is so interesting. But now we have Kristen and Miranda’s house has been broken into. We all assume it’s Robert. And so that feels like a pretty big escalation for him.

Dave:  Yeah. So the point of entry is Kristen lives in a neighborhood with individual houses. And the neighbor had a ladder next to the house just kind of laid down by the fence, away from the road. It’s mid-summer when Kristen left the house. Some of the upstairs windows at Kristen’s house were cracked open a little bit up on the second floor and no balconies. But there’s a ladder next door and Kristen wouldn’t have known that. So the thought is that the point of entry is one of these open windows in the second story ladder up the backside of the house. Nothing’s taken, only things disturbed.  Very suspicious, right?

Yeardley:  Yeah.

Paul:  Disturbed in a way like the burglar is looking for something.

Dave:  Yes. Like looking for something where it’s not orderly, but it’s not chaos and panic. It’s methodically going through things and realizing when Kristen comes home, she’s like, “Somebody’s rifled through my things. This doesn’t feel right.”

Yeardley:  Like they’re thinking maybe the thing I’m looking for is here, maybe it’s here, maybe it’s here.

Paul:  Assuming this is Robert, who’s the burglar, he’s going over to Kristen’s house, and he’s expecting Kristen and Miranda to be there. When you have an offender who’s willing to break into a house when there’s people present, that’s a dangerous individual. Most burglars, they avoid houses with occupants when they’re just financially motivated. They don’t want that. That’s why residential burgs are hit during the day when people are at work, and commercial burgs hit at night when everybody’s home.

[laughter]

 I don’t know if Robert got there and recognized that, “Oh, Kristen and Miranda aren’t here. I better break in and grab, maybe there’s something that’s incriminating against him within the house.”

Dave:  Yeah. And I don’t. Kristen wasn’t able to say, “This item is missing or this item is damaged,” only that “somebody was in my house overnight.” Think about the creep factor on what Kristen and Miranda are dealing with. And then you get home after a horrible day of your daughter being forensically interviewed, and you’re like, “Somebody was in my house.”

Dan:  Do you know if Robert had been to Kristen and Miranda’s house before?

Dave:  Robert had been there? Robert’s a handyman and Robert had helped out with house projects over the years because he’s handyman, church group, always helping.

Dan:  So, he’s got some familiarity with the new territory that he stepped in.

Dave:  Right.

Paul:  Robert’s in his late 60s at this point. And Dave has detailed Robert’s criminal history, which generally were these lie and wait outside for a victim to appear or follow a victim. And then, of course, the masturbating in the grocery store. But I’m assessing Robert, okay you have this set of behaviors with Robert’s known criminal history in the past. Now, with Kristen and Miranda’s residence, Robert is willing to break into a residence. That opens up the possibility that some of the crimes that Robert committed in the decades prior, he possibly is breaking in and assaulting victims in their own home. That really broadens out the types of crimes that Robert needs to be considered for over the decades.

Dave:  Yeah. I wish Paul Holes worked with me back then. [Yeardley laughs] Because then I would have had somewhat of a roadmap. So this case is rapidly evolving. I have PC. I have a victim, Kristen, who had their house broken into, and I have to take her at her word. Like, “You’re recognizing things were rifled through.” Okay, like, “I don’t have any reason to believe that mom’s just making this up to get some exigency going, because clearly, I’m taking this seriously. Given this burglary factor plus, I’ve got a predatory sex offender. I’m like, “Well, we’re writing a search warrant. I’m getting into Robert’s house.” After this forensic interview, I start writing search warrant to get into Robert’s house because I want clothing, cameras, laptops, flash drives, bedding. That type of stuff is what I’m looking for.

Yeardley:  Phones too?

Dave:  Phones, yes. And in speaking with Kristen, Kristen said that, “Robert really dotes on Miranda.” That in recent months, Robert had been babysitting maybe a couple of times a week, sometimes overnight. And Kristen says, “Robert takes photos of Miranda all the time, like Robert’s screensaver on his phone.” When I got Kristen’s phone number, Robert’s screensaver was a picture of Miranda. He had a desktop in the house. Later on, we get a search warrant. He had a picture of Miranda as a screensaver. Little, like just pictures and frames that you get at Walmart with a little picture of Miranda. He’s got five or six pictures of Miranda. It’s clear he has some affection for Miranda. He’s saying, “She’s like my goddaughter.” I have to take that for what it’s worth, I don’t have anything to refute that currently, other than I have Miranda’s disclosure at a forensic interview but it’s creepy.

Yeardley:  It’s creepy. It’s obsessive.

Dave:  It’s not your kid and that kid is plastered all over your bedroom and your office.

Paul:  Well, in the grocery store, Robert is masturbating while looking at a little girl. He’s now got permanent images of Miranda on his phone, in his house. What do you think he’s doing when he’s looking at those photos?

Dave:  Right. So, I head over to the DA’s office, which is in the same building as our courthouse, where the judges would review and sign my search warrant. So it’s midafternoon. I think Miranda’s forensic interview was 10:00, 11:00 AM something like that. So by 02:00 or 03:00, I’m deep into writing a search warrant, and I get over to the courthouse. I get it reviewed by the DA. DA says, “Good to go. Why don’t you go get it signed?” I am in judge’s chambers getting my search warrant reviewed right before I get it signed, and my phone rings, and it’s our county parole and probation office. And I go, I answer, and it’s a PO that I’m familiar with. And she goes, “Hey, are you working a case with a guy named Robert? Lives at this address?” And I said, “Indeed I am. I’m on it right now. What do you got?” She said, “Well, I’m Robert’s roommate’s PO.”

Yeardley:  Oh, Daryl’s.

Dave:  Daryl. I’m Daryl’s PO. And Daryl called me a moment ago and said, “Hey, I was expecting to see the police out here this morning, but they haven’t come as I’m calling you because I’m not sure how to get a hold of this detective, but I think they might be interested in what has been going on since last night.” Daryl said, “Right after Sergeant Bryan and I left, Robert started kind of frantically walking around the house saying he’s going to get arrested. And Robert started packing up all of his belongings and had packed up about 95% of his belongings overnight, quit his job, and left abruptly with all of his valuables. There’s a few things left here and there in his bedroom and in his office, but I figured you guys might want to know that. Okay, I do want to know that.”

 Right after I hang up with the PO, who had relayed what Daryl told her, I’m calling George, Don, Dan, everybody, saying, “I need you to get to Robert’s house and break down that door and seize everything we can for now, I’m 10 minutes from getting signed for this warrant.” Like, in the interest of preserving evidence, we can go kick in the door.

Break 1

 So our guys secure Robert’s house, and I’ve got to drive over from the judge’s chambers over to Robert’s house. We’re going to execute the search warrant. While we’re there, I have contact with Daryl and Julie, Robert’s roommates. And Julie tells me, separate from Daryl, “Hey, is this about Miranda?” I said, “100%, it’s about Miranda.” She goes, “Well, can I talk to you about some things that have been bothering me? Sure.” She goes, “I knew what Robert had been on parole for. I knew kind of some of what he had done. I don’t know everything, but it has always bothered me that he had this six-year-old girl that he was babysitting. And Robert’s very caring for Miranda. They seem to love each other. But recently, anytime Miranda has to go into the bathroom or into Robert’s bedroom, like, for nap time, when Miranda’s not here, Robert’s bedroom door is always open, even if he’s sleeping. When Miranda’s here, the door is always closed, and Robert’s in the bedroom with her.”

Yeardley:  Oh, no.

Dave:  And that bothers me. I’m guessing the mom doesn’t know that stuff. And I said, “I am certain that the mom would be here in a second if she found that kind of shit out.” Like, certainly the mom doesn’t know that. Then she says, “I don’t think it’s appropriate for Robert to sometimes give Miranda baths.” Julie says this, and I say, “Julie, you’re right.” So, separately, Daryl relays the same concerns. And Daryl knows the game better than Julie does, because Daryl’s been on probation for this stuff. And Daryl says, “I have told Robert multiple times, you are going to get yourself in trouble, not only for you, but for me. You’re putting a little girl in the house with me who’s under the scrutiny of a PO.” He’s like, “I would never touch this girl.” But Robert’s got this girl in my house, and I’m on supervised probation for sexual assault of a child. Like, that’s the last thing I need in my life. I’m trying to get my shit straight. And this guy who is off parole all of a sudden is bringing this child around, thinking that it’s no big deal. I know it’s a big deal, but he’s not on parole anymore, and he has nobody to answer to.

Yeardley:  Dave, is there a difference between parole and probation?

Dave:  Parole comes after you’ve served your sentence, like, on a felony. Like, you get let out of prison early, and now you’re on parole for a number of years. Probation typically has to do with misdemeanor charges, they’re not felonies. People get off parole, and now there’s no supervision in this case. I believe Robert to be one of these types of suspects where they will choose against early release. So they don’t get released on parole and they don’t have conditions. So they’re like, “I’ll just stay in, serve my whole sentence, which might be three or four more years. But now when I get out, I am square with the house, and I am not on paper. There is nobody telling me when I have to check in or take a piss test or take a polygraph. I’m on my own. We have dealt with those folks in the past, and I truly believe Robert’s one of those.” Like, “I’m going to be under scrutiny if I come out on parole. I’d rather just have that expire.”

Paul:  Yeah. And when you’re on parole, you know that’s when now your residence.

Yeardley:  You have to report where you’re living if you’re a sex offender.

Paul:  Mm-hmm. And law enforcement can go inside and search to make sure whatever conditions of your parole you’re not violating. And so you can imagine somebody like Robert, who possibly has some materials inside his residence that are illegal. He doesn’t want that surprise knock on the door and say, “Hi, Robert. We’re going to come in and just check things out.”

Yeardley:  Right. I never thought of that.

Dave:  So I’m getting a clear picture about frequency, like what life looks like inside of Robert’s house when Miranda’s there. And it’s consistent with what Miranda says. Miranda says, “I don’t like bath time. I don’t like nap time.” The mom, Kristen had found out about nap times a few months prior. Kristen found out there was a nap and that Robert had been in the same room, but not like, sleeping in the bed with Miranda. And Kristen said, “Never again, I don’t want you sleeping with my child, just put her out on the couch.” Kristen doesn’t know about Robert’s roommate and his past either.

Yeardley:  Oh.

Dave:  These are deceitful sex offender men who took advantage of a trusting mother who’d needed some help. I’m not saying Daryl did anything to Miranda. I’m just saying it’s not appropriate knowing what their past is for Daryl and Robert to have a girl there. Daryl recognizes this and is calling out his roommate but he can only do so much.

Yeardley:  Right. And he is still lying by omission.

Dave:  Right. So it’s a complex case. There are some unsavory folks here, but truly, Julie and Daryl are on the right side of this. They’re doing everything they’re supposed to do. So we execute the search warrant at Robert’s house. During this search, we find just a smattering like a little bag of clothing that belongs to a girl that would probably be Miranda’s age. So the thought is, “It’s probably Miranda’s clothing that she just has here, just in case.” And then I search Robert’s office area, which is kind of detached from the kitchen and it’s makeshift office. And Robert has an old laptop, kind of under the desk that’s got dust on it. So I’m like, that probably hasn’t been used. He’s got a couple of, Nikon cameras with memory cards. And so I snatch up all those flash drives and then he’s got typical office stuff, like business cards that come in little boxes so you can order your own cards online. So Robert had a bunch of business cards in boxes.

Yeardley:  As a handyman.

Dave:  As a handyman. So I went through this area, and I fucked up. I missed something on this search. I wasn’t as thorough as I probably should have been. We seized laptop, digital cards, flash drives, children’s clothing, some bedding, and that was it. Like, there wasn’t a whole lot left. And I’m thinking, “Well, if Robert bolted out of here as quick as I think he did, he probably grabbed all the shit that I was going to be looking for.”

Yeardley:  I am surprised he left behind any flash drives and little cards and cameras and things like that.

Dave:  I think he might have forgotten where he put some of them, because some of them were in a little jewelry box keepsake’s, right? So I thought immediately when I find these flash drives in a little jewelry box, I’m like, “There it is. It’s always on the flash drive.” Sex crimes detectives have a saying, “It’s always on the thumb drive because you keep it close.” [Yeardley laughs] I can’t put a laptop in my pocket, but I sure can put a thumb drive. I don’t want that to ever lose my sight, because it’s really valuable stuff to sex offenders. So I’m thinking Robert probably grabbed all the shit that I’m looking for. Well, the next day, I find out from the roommates Julie and Daryl that because of the police contact, police have been at this house a couple times, the landlord evicts the people from the house. Like, “You got a week to get out.”

 And so now I’ve got Daryl and Julie have to deal with Robert’s bullshit, get them kicked out of their house. We’re not there for Daryl and Julie. We’re there for Robert. Robert took off and moved out. So now Daryl and Julie are having to move out of this house, and they start going through the belongings that were left behind, and in doing so came across these business cards and the office. I had missed something among all these boxes of business cards, where it’s like a box with 50 business cards, another box with 50 business cards. And one of the boxes under the business cards was a thumb drive, hidden, clearly hidden. And all I did, I open up these boxes. I’m sure I handled this. I opened it up, nothing looked off. Close it back up. I didn’t individually look through.

 Well, Daryl and Julie proactively called me and said, “Hey, we think you guys missed something. We just found this buried under some business cards. Can we meet up with you to hand this off?” Sure. So I met with Julie and Daryl, really helpful, handed me this thumb drive. And it turns out, later on, we give that to our digital forensics guy, and that thumb drive has child sex abuse material on it. And the sex abuse material is very similar to stuff that I had seen throughout my career, which is not overtly pornographic, like sexual. In some communities, both in the US and abroad, especially in Europe, you get these archives of photos from nudist colonies.

 And nudist colonies consist of adults who are nudists and their children who thereby are also nudists. And so you have these colonies that kind of live in secluded compounds. This is our community and our kids, and we’re all raised with the earth and, well, it’s just a cover for adults wanting to be naked around kids. And that’s truly what it is.

Yeardley:  Listen, I would never join a nudist colony, but, Dave, because I’m the Greek chorus, I sit on this side of the table. I’m going to challenge you that nudist colonies are for sex offenders.

Dave:  I’ll accept that challenge. [Yeardley chuckles] Most nudist colonies involve people 18 and over who are consenting to their state of dress. The colonies that I’m referring to are a bunch of people 18 and over who have consented to their state of undress, who have now introduced toddler age children all the way up to prepubescent and teenagers, into a situation where children, we know, don’t consent until they’re 18. And now they’re put in a situation where they have to coercively consent to being nude around strangers, people in their community. But it’s not like a family member. And I find that to be extremely troubling for many reasons. Anybody who might stand in support or defense of a position like, “Oh, they’re just children and it’s a nudist colony.” I’d go, “That’s fine. Just be 18 and over and go, do your nudist thing, but don’t introduce kids to it.” We keep exposing kids to increased exposure to pornographic material, to sexual content, sexual situations, sexual subjects, that is all on the grooming checklist. And so when people try to make that argument, I always go, “Well, I can always fall back on this trusty piece of information that sex offenders are intentional about where they put themselves.”

Yeardley:  Well said. Challenge done. [chuckles]

Dave:  [chuckles] Yeah. So you get these archives with hundreds of pictures of all the same people in different poses, like at a pool party where everyone’s naked, adults next to eight year olds. And then you get pictures that are very targeted, very focused on the child’s genitals, that it’s not a picture like you would have at a conference with everybody with their arms around each other. This is at a pool with a bunch of nudist adults with nude kids. And the pictures don’t show the people’s faces. They show just a band of all the prepubescent girl’s breasts. That’s what we’re talking about here. Some people will go, “Well, that’s not child pornography. That’s not child sex abuse material.” And I’m like, “No. The purpose of the photo is to accentuate and highlight the viewer’s purpose for taking the photo, which is genitals. I want to see private areas.” That’s why it becomes child sex abuse material. And the DA agreed with me. Like, that absolutely is not a picture saying, “Hey, we we’re here at this party.” It’s way beyond that. So I’ve got these in my back pocket. I’ve got these four or five charges of child sex abuse material. And I’m like, “That’s a big hammer too. I’ve got a sex abuse charge, at least on Miranda.”

Yeardley:  On Miranda.

Dave:  And now I’ve got computer stuff.

Yeardley:  Now you have to find Robert.

Dave:  Yeah. And here’s the thing. After talking with Daryl and Julie, and they give me the “Robert’s on the run, you should probably know that.” I go, “Well, fuck.” I’ve got an unsolved burglary overnight at my victim’s residence. I have a predatory sex offender on the run who quit his job. Oh, the roommate tells me that Robert is selling his Harley and he’s selling his truck trying to get money. And I’m like, “He’s trying to get out of dodge, like he’s bailing.” And I went to Sergeant Dave and said, here’s the circumstances. I want to get an emergency ping on Robert’s phone because he’s in the wind. I’m on his trail, but I’m about 12 hours behind. And we need to get eyes on this guy so we don’t have to worry about more burglaries or crazy shit happening. And he agrees. And Dave says, go to dispatch and get the ping.

Yeardley:  Dave, why do you go to dispatch to get your ping? Don’t you have to write a search warrant for the phone company or something?

Dave:  No. So to get an emergency ping, which I have exigent circumstances like, “Let’s get it now. I don’t have time to write two-hour warrant.” You check some boxes and the phone company Sprint, AT&T whatever, they accept on faith that you are reporting in good faith an actual emergency with exigent circumstances, and that the facts that you’re relaying are accurate and they can approve an emergency ping based on that. I don’t have their phone number as the detective, I always just used to go to dispatch and go, “Hey, can you call Sprint and get an emergency ping on this phone number? And here’s the reason why. Here’s my case number. I’m assigned to it.” Basically, it attributes all of my requests to me so it can be reverse engineered. And they go, “Who put this emergency ping on it?” Like, “Oh, Detective Dave did.” I have a reason.

Yeardley:  Why don’t you call the phone company though? Call Sprint and say, “I need this ping.”

Dave:  It’s a matter of convenience. Dispatchers deal with it all the time. I never deal with it.

Yeardley:  Delegate.

Dave:  Yeah.

Dan:  A lot of times when we’re pinging phones too, we’re out in the field. So we over the radio, contact dispatch and say, “Hey, call Sprint or AT&T, whoever the cell carrier is, and ping that phone again, because we’re out in an area and we need your help. Because I don’t want to be on the phone if all hell breaks loose right now.

Dave:  Yeah. And without the burglary, I don’t think I ever get that ping or I don’t think I ever feel compelled to do that. Unless it got into more of a manhunt. I probably could justify that ping, but in the circumstance, based on the condensed timeline of less than 24 hours, I’ve got a suspect on the run who was abandoning his life. And I’ve got a victim’s house who was burglarized overnight.

Yeardley:  And you have disclosure from a victim, etc., etc.

Dave:  Right. So there’s enough for me to get this emergency ping without one or two of those. I don’t think I ever get there. Like the phone company can tell you that’s not exigent. So while we’re dealing with that, we’ve just finished a search warrant. I didn’t find a whole lot. It really is like, the scraps of Robert’s room and office left over is what I have. Like I said, “I didn’t get the flash drive until the following day.” So at this point, all I have is PC for what was disclosed in the forensic child interview. And I’m good with that. That’s a good charge. Like, my witness is good. The circumstances are compelling. He’s been known to do these types of things. Robert is not a good guy. So I’m feeling pretty good about this case, but I don’t know where Robert is.

 So we start getting pings, and I decide, “Well, I’ll do a little truth game with Robert.” I got his phone number. I’ve already got a ping, and I know where this ping is. It’s about 30 miles west of where Dan and I work in a very rural, mountainous region. I’m like, “Okay, now I know where he is ish.” But these pings are, you get a ping like every 15 minutes, and it says, “The vehicle is within 2 miles west, northwest of this tower.”

Yeardley:  Oh, God.

Dave:  And you’re in rural America.

Yeardley:  Right. [laughs]

Dave:  Think of all the driveways. I’m like, “Well, this is going to be a wild goose chase.” And so typically how we do that is we just send the whole squad out there in different cars, and you just blanket the area looking for a vehicle or some sort of clue that this is where my guy is. So we did that, that night. But during this ping, I’ve got Robert’s phone pinging 30 miles west of where Dan and I work, and I call Robert and leave a voicemail, and I say, “I got to talk to you, Robert. There’s more that we’ve got to talk about.” And right now, it’s a waiting game. But with this ping, I get some very basic details about which numbers are being called and texted back and forth.

Yeardley:  How’s that?

Dan:  Subpoena phone records.

Yeardley:  Oh, I see.

Dan:  You get some of the information.

Dave:  So I had subpoena Robert’s phone records as part of this emergency order. And I get some information that Robert is reaching out to a couple of friends. And when I heard their name, I went, “Oh, I know who those are.” Because during the search warrant in Robert’s office, I’m looking for anything, and I just see a post it note stuck to the wall that just has two names on it, Harry and Jane. And it’s like, Harry plus Jane. And you’re like, “Is that a reminder? What is that?” I don’t know what that is, but I grabbed it. I’m like, those are people I might meet. [Yeardley laughs] Who knows? So in this ping order, I get some numbers that are being dialed from Robert’s phone to other people. And it’s probably three or four people.

 But in particular, I see this number, and I just call the number, like, “Hey, who’s this guy?” [Yeardley chuckles] That guy goes, “Ahaa, I’m Harry.” And I go, “Harry, are you with Jane?” And he’s like, “Yeah, she’s right here.” I go,” Let’s talk about Robert.” And he’s like, “I knew you were going to call us.” I said, “So tell me about Robert.” And they said, “Well, we know Robert. We’re not close friends with him, but he called us last night in a panic and said, he’s about to get arrested and that he needs a place to stay, and he needs some help storing some of his belongings.” And that’s the last time we talked to him. I’m like, “Okay, do you know where he went?” Oh, yeah. No, I don’t know. Okay. You guys haven’t talked to him since then? Like, no. I go, “Well, what if I told you guys talked to him like, 18 minutes before I called you?”-

[laughter]

 Oh, that was– Jane was talking to him, and I was in the background. I go, “Got it.” You guys want to be on the right side of this or where you want to be.

Dan:  So you’ve got Robert talking to Harry and Jane and admitting that he’s about to be arrested. Obviously, any normal person is going to ask more questions. If I’m Harry or Jane, I’m going to say, “Well, what are you going to get arrested for? What kind of trouble are you in before I decide to help you?” So what they’re looking at in the state that Dave and I worked in is if you can be arrested for a felony, if a detective or a police officer has PC for you for a felony charge, and you are a fugitive on the run, and Harry and Jane, in this instance harbor Robert, then they are committing a crime, and they can go to jail. It’s a bad spot to be in for them.

Yeardley:  Sure. But I’m thinking maybe Harry and Jane say, “Yeah, sure, you can store your stuff at my house.” Then Robert does and Harry and Jane call the cops and go, “Robert, stuff is here.”

Dan:  That happens.

Dave:  That does happen. And I did not have the same confidence in Harry and Jane that I would have with Daryl and Julie.

Yeardley:  Copy that.

Dave:  Harry and Jane were playing the game with me. It was one of those where you’re like, “You have to confront them with the cell phone records for them to admit to a call.” And I’m like, “And then you guys talked for over an hour yesterday, and then you had another15 minutes call last night.” I’m like, “I got your phone records right in front of me.”

Dan:  It wasn’t an hour-long butt dial. [Yeardley laughs]

Dave:  These are not brilliant folks, and they’re certainly not trying to be on the right side of this. Like, “Daryl and Julie are trying to do the right thing.” So Harry and Jane tell me clearly they’re trying to get the turd out of their pocket. They’re like, “Robert might be staying with his buddy Leonard.” He goes by Leonard and he lives on the other side of our neighboring town, but we’re not sure where. So I go, “Okay.” As I’m wrapping up that call, I’d let them know. Hey, if you guys talk to Robert, which I anticipate you will hear within a couple of minutes, [Yeardley chuckles] let him know I need to speak with him and give him my phone number. “Got it, we will, no problem.” Ten minutes later, I get a phone call from Robert.

Yeardley:  Oh.

Break 2

Dave:  I was like, “Robert, what’s going on?” He goes, “You know what’s going on?” I said, “You and I need to talk.” And he goes, “I am selling everything I own so I can get an attorney. Last time I had a public defender, I spent 13 years in prison for something I didn’t do.” And I’m like, “Okay, well, what about your other convictions?” And he goes, “Oh, yeah, I did those, but I didn’t do what I was convicted for the last time I went to prison.”

Yeardley:  Which one is he referring to there?

Dave:  Unspecific.

Yeardley:  Oh, “What Robert went to prison for 13 years for?”

Dave:  But I also have this big hole in my timeline.

Yeardley:  Because of the old police reports that are really general.

Dave:  Right. I don’t know if he’s referring to the case that I have visibility on or if it’s something else. Truly, I’m going to have to ask more questions. But at this point, he’s just like, “Yeah, I got screwed over by a public defender in the past and I’ll never do it again. So I’m selling my truck and my motorcycle and everything I own so I can get an actual attorney.” Okay, well, we need to hurry that up or I can arrange that for you, but I need to talk to you, Robert. And he’s like, “I’m going to be in hiding until this attorney issue gets resolved.” And I said, “Okay, well, where are you?” And he goes, “I’m 35 miles northeast of where you are.”

Yeardley:  That’s pretty specific.

Dave:  He’s naming a town. And I go, “Okay, are you staying with somebody? Are you camping?” And he goes, “I’m not going to tell you anything more than that.” Click, hung up on me. And I’m like, “Well, I know he’s not where he says he is.” Robert’s phone pinged while I was on the phone with Robert, 30 miles west of where I was, not 35 miles northeast. Robert is lying to me and I know he is in real time. So Robert’s playing the game still. Robert thinks that I have no idea that I’ve got someone to look for out on the west side of our neighboring town. And that’s when I really enlist help of Dan and Don and George and Kyle and Justin, Jimmy. Everybody helped on this. So it’s afternoon, and I go, “Screw this. I’m going to go find Robert.” I drive to this area, this rural area 30 miles west of where Dan and I work and kind of familiar with it. Like, Dan and I grew up 10 miles from this area. So I’ve been out in this area before, but we’re talking. You have, like, 1-mile-long driveways off the main track to get back to a property.

Dan:  And you got a lot of people in that area where Dave thinks Robert is. There are a lot of people in that area that aren’t really cop friendly. They have big guns. They live out there for a reason. They just want to be away from people. And so you really got to commit when you’re driving a mile into a property, you’re committed. It’s not like you can really turn around. It’s a gravel driveway every time and it’s dark. There are trees everywhere. It’s not a comfortable feeling.

Dave:  And I know who I’m dealing with. And a cornered animal is unpredictable. And I’m getting the feeling that Robert feels cornered based on the last 24 hours, bailing out of his house, quitting his job, selling everything.

Yeardley:  And telling everybody he talks to, “I’m going to get arrested.”

Dave:  Right. So I drove out to this rural area, and I just started doing a search. I drove all over God’s creation thinking, “Okay, it’s 2 miles west of this tower. That tower is right there. I’m somewhere in the halo here.” And I searched and searched and searched. Couldn’t find any indicator of where Leonard lives. This was kind of a hasty like I’m at my desk. I got to find Leonard. Oh, they said he lives kind of out here. I’m going out there right now. If I would have waited half an hour and done a little bit of digging, probably saved myself some headaches.

Yeardley:  Did Leonard have contact with the police and you could have found him?

Dave:  Leonard did not have contact with the police. Leonard is 100% a hermit. So I searched for hours that evening, no avail. Come back with my head held down, tail between my legs. I’m like, “Fuck.”

Yeardley:  But an incredible effort, Dave.

Dave:  Work smarter, not harder though, right? So everyone I remember being in the office, they’re like, “Hey, find your guy yet?” I’m like, “Fuck.” [Yeardley laughs] he’s beating me right now but there’s time to recover. So I start really digging, and we have some databases that are effective. I find Leonard, and I find that Leonard lives on a street that I drove right by his house hours ago. And I’m like, “Okay, at least I know where I’m going.” But also, would have been really stupid for me to drive up that driveway by myself.

Yeardley:  Right, right. Thank God you didn’t do that.

Dave:  Yeah. So then it’s like I tell Dan and the cavalry, like, “Let’s go. I know where we’re going and I was right there.”

Dan:  I remember Sergeant Dave, our supervisor, he pointed at me and he said, “You’re not going in an unmarked car.” You’re going in a marked patrol unit just in case this turns into like a high-speed chase. In our state and per our department policy for us to pursue, it can’t be a detective car, it has to be a marked patrol car. So I’m in a marked patrol car. It’s really quick and we’re hoping we get hands on Robert and he can sit in the back of the patrol car while I drive him back to our city.

Yeardley:  And you guys are going to try to find Robert at Leonard’s house. Is this the plan?

Dave:  That is the plan hastily derived-

[laughter]

 -but let’s go out there and overwhelm this property. It’s 11 o’clock at night by now.

Dan:  It’s very dark out there, very dark.

Dave:  It’s summer, so it stays light until 10:00 plus P.M., but it’s dark and it’s hot.

Dan:  Mountain lions and bears out there. [laughs]

Dave:  All the shit I don’t want to deal with.

Yeardley:  Dave, if you have the whole pool of detectives helping you search for Robert in the middle of the night, what happens if there’s a really big crime and you’re like 30 to 45 minutes away from your police station? Who’s there to mind the store?

Dave:  Patrol, always have patrol on. And we could have peeled people off and sent them there. Wouldn’t have been a problem. We get out to Leonard’s property and Leonard lives up an old kind of muddy dirt road, probably 50 yards off the main road that Leonard lives on. And Leonard’s got an interesting property. It is clear Leonard’s a hermit and doesn’t get out much because all the windows have foil over the windows, so you can’t see in or out. So you can imagine it’s really dark inside or maybe it’s a marijuana grill, I don’t know, [Yeardley chuckles] but Leonard is in his 80s.

Yeardley:  Oh.

Dave:  I remember there was a whole probably 10 of us out on this property, couple of K9s, we had multiple jurisdictions, we had a couple of state police, we had a couple of county deputies with us and then our whole crew from our agency out there to really cover this house. I remember knocking on Leonard’s door for a long time. This is like a theme in this case where you’re like knocking for 5, 10 minutes.

Yeardley:  Nobody wants to answer the door when you knock, Dave.

Dave:  Good God. This house is less than 1000 sq ft. You could have walked back and forth 100 times and answered the door in this time. But finally, I get some indication that someone’s at the door, but the door won’t open. It’s a closed door and it’s Leonard. And he says, “Who’s there?” And I said, “Leonard, can you open up?” “I don’t open my door for anybody. What do you want?” I go, “Leonard, I’m looking for your friend Robert.” “Oh, yeah, Robert, he’s here.”

[laughter]

 I go, “Where’s Robert?” Oh, he doesn’t come in the house. He’s staying in the treehouse on the back 40 of the property. Leonard has acres out in the country.

Dan:  Heavily wooded with big, tall fir trees, high grass. We’re talking grass that’s 3.5ft high.

Dave:  Yeah. And we’re going to search this at 11 o’clock at night. And I was not in love with that, but I’m like, “Robert is around here.” And Leonard just kind of happily gave up his buddy and said, “He’s back there in a treehouse.”

Dan:  Leonard doesn’t say it’s 200ft back there or 200 yards or a mile back on his property. So off we go.

Dave:  You know what I remember about that night? Not a full moon, but close. We had lots of light overhead but you couldn’t see in front of you because there’s just so much brush and it’s forested. So eventually, we get back to this. It’s kind of a grove of trees up like a little hillside. And somebody’s flashlight catches a glimpse of the shine off of glass and goes, “Hey, I think I got it.” And sure enough, we walk back to this little grove of trees on this little mini hillside and sure enough, there’s like a little shack up in a tree.

Dan:  Like 40ft up.

Dave:  Yeah.

Yeardley:  And there’s a little ladder or something. How do you get up there?

Dave:  You can climb up a ladder on where somebody just pounded a bunch of 2x4s up the tree trunk? Or if you walk up the hill, there’s like a little ramp that goes out to the house. So if you think about a tree house going vertically and then right next to it is this kind of vertical running hill that as you get closer to the top, you can bridge the gap, but at the bottom it’s just a tree and a hillside. You got to go up to the top of the hill to be able to access like straight across out to the treehouse. Or you can just climb up this tree trunk. We went up the hill because I ain’t all about heights.

Yeardley:  Sure. [laughs]

Dave:  And Robert was tidally asleep in the treehouse. And Robert gave himself up and walked out to the car with Dan and I, peacefully gave up I remember him saying. Robert goes, “I told you I’m trying to bide some time so I can get an attorney.” And I said, “Okay, well, I don’t care.”

[laughter]

Dan:  Yeah. That just means we’re not going to really have a conversation but you’re still going to jail.

Yeardley:  Right. I love that. I love that you say, “I don’t care to Robert.” But talk a little bit about also, “Why, even if you did care, Robert’s asking you to help him buy time till he gets a private attorney is a non-starter.

Dave:  Yeah. So, really, it’s not my responsibility to assist Robert in securing any sort of legal advice. My job is to put him in jail. So I used to love when people would be like, “Well, I have an attorney.” I go, “I don’t care.” Or, I want an attorney or I was going to turn myself in, you just didn’t give me enough time. Again, it’s like, “I don’t care.”

Dan:  Someone’s desire for an attorney doesn’t trump our probable cause to arrest them.

Yeardley:  Exactly. Only if they actually invoke their right to silence then you can’t talk to them.

Dave:  Yeah.

Paul:  Robert will have plenty of time in jail to figure out his attorney situation.

Dave:  That is true and I’ll say Robert got a really good attorney.

Break 3

Dave:  So, great resolution. I’m starting to come down now. Like, when you’re looking for someone, Dan talks about the hunt. I’m sure Paul loved that about the job was the hunt. Looking for people, trying to link evidence to people to prove a case. I’m feeling pretty good about where we’re at right now. And it’s time to drive back to the police station. We got at least a half hour or 45-minute drive from where we are to back to the police station and Dan’s driving. Robert is in the passenger seat, front passenger and I am seated in the back, interviewing Robert on the way back to the police station.

Yeardley:  Why isn’t Robert in the backseat?

Dave:  I don’t want suspects behind me.

Yeardley:  Oh.

Dan:  We switched up cars. I ended up driving Dave’s unmarked car. I was the driver. Robert sat up front in the passenger seat and Dave was in the back. And one of the other detectives drove the marked patrol car back.

Dave:  Yeah. So, Robert is handcuffed, and he’s kind of turning towards the center console just to acknowledge that he and I are in a chat. And that chat was three or four minutes before Robert invoked his right to remain silent. And we didn’t have any conversation after that because those are the rules. Robert wasn’t going to give anything up. I think Robert, like a lot of people who have experience with the system, learned nothing good comes from me talking to the police, and I’m not admitting to anything, and I’m not going to make the cop’s life easier by giving this detective a statement, I’m shutting up. And we run into that a lot with people who have spent time in prison. Everyone who spent time in prison goes, “You don’t talk to the cops.”

Dan:  I remember the one thing that Robert said on the drive back to the police station was, “If I get another strike, that’s life.”

Yeardley:  Did your state have a three-strike law back then?

Dave:  So our state has a three-strikes law when it comes to sexual assault. Certain cases check those boxes. And if you get three convictions based on which crimes, some crimes don’t apply. But if you get three convictions in this column, that’s a life sentence in our state.

Dan:  You’re eligible for a life sentence. You don’t always get it, but you’re eligible for it.

Dave:  Right.

Yeardley:  So Robert is saying, “If I get one more strike I’m out and then I’m back in prison forever.”

Dave:  Right. So Robert never admits to anything. What he’s saying is he’s pointing out a fact that if he gets another conviction, he’s going away for life. That’s not an admission to anything. So, quiet ride back to the police station, lodge Robert.

Yeardley:  In the jail. He goes to the jail.

Dave:  Yeah, Robert goes to jail. And Robert is lodged for the initial charge. It’s just a sexual abuse type charge, and it’s enough to hold him in the days that come I get information from our forensics guy that says, “Hey, on this flash drive that was given to you by Daryl and Julie, we can tie at least a handful of images that are considered child sex abuse material to Robert and not to his roommate.” Because you think about that, the cover is, my roommate’s a sex offender too, and he’s just given all the evidence that has to do with him. He’s making it come down on me. Well, we have ways to figure out where thumb drives have been plugged into, and there is no evidence to suggest that this thumb drive that was found by Julie and Daryl, that it belonged to Daryl.

 There is evidence to suggest that it belonged to Robert. So we are in a waiting game, like you do grand jury, you’re doing your follow up stuff. We had found some children’s clothing among Robert’s belongings at his house in bedding. Send those off for DNA, get DNA from the suspect via search warrant, do all the things. And I get no hits for anything. I get no physical evidence on clothing or bedding, which that’s hit and miss whether or not was it clean clothes? Was it in the washer? Like, I don’t have that kind of physical evidence. There’s no DNA. I have Miranda’s disclosure. I have the facts of the case, and then I have this child sex abuse material, which is kind of the hammer in addition to this hands-on touching, I’ve got really solid evidence for this child sex abuse material. So I’m just waiting and plea deals go out after 30 to 60 days.

 At some point, the DA goes, “Hey, here’s a plea deal, and here’s what we’re going to offer you.” In that waiting time, I get a call from a handyman who is working at Robert’s and Daryl and Julie’s past residence. They have moved out and now this handyman is getting this property ready to turn over to new renters. And in the process, this handyman is working underneath the house. So this handyman says, “Hey, I know whose house I’m working on, because there was a whole blow up, and you guys did a press release on arresting this guy. And by the way, I’m working on this guy’s house for the property management group. And I got under the house, and I found a hard drive, and it is pristine, and it’s right under Robert’s old bedroom. You interested?” And I’m like, “See you in a second.”

[laughter]

 So I drive out, meet with this handyman/good Samaritan, good citizen. And that’s theme here. I got a lot of people that got involved that normally wouldn’t have that did great things here, and I’m grateful, very appreciative of that. And in this case, it’s no different. This handyman says, “Hey, here you go.” Hands me off this hard drive. It’s probably a 500-gigabyte hard drive, it is spotless, it looks brand new, but it’s been under a house for at least a month or two since Robert moved out.

 And it’s been handled by five people, because when the handyman found it, he went to his buddy who was also working and said, “What do you think of this?” And he’s like, “Hey, did you hear about the guy who got arrested out of this house?” And then somebody said, “Give me that. Let me see that.” This hard drive is exchange hands with everybody on the crew and then it’s handed to me. And of course, I don’t have gloved on. [Yeardley laughs] And I’m like, “Great. Ah, shit.” I remember this guy goes, don’t worry about it, everybody’s touched that thing. I said, “Well, it’s going to matter what’s inside the hard drive versus whose fingerprints are on it.” But I was like, “Oh, here’s the smoking gun. Hard drive is totally clean, totally clean.”

Yeardley:  What?

Dave:  There’s, like, the file folder structure in there that, just gets kind of, like, default booted onto something, but there’s nothing in there.

Yeardley:  Like, it’s never been used or it’s been wiped.

Dave:  My feeling was that it was wiped, but I don’t know. But I can say with 100% confidence there’s no evidence on there that was recoverable. Even if it was wiped and it wasn’t brand new, I have nothing. I was really like, “Oh, this is going to be the goldmine.” Never turned out all I had on this case, electronics wise. Nothing incriminating on the phone, nothing incriminating on the laptop. I found one flash drive with a handful of images that qualified statutorily in our state as child sex abuse material. And then I have a disclosure from Miranda. And with that, our DA sends Robert and his team a deal. So Robert did get a private attorney, a good attorney. I thought for sure we’re going to trial. Eventually, Robert takes a plea deal and was given 15 years. And so Robert will be in his 80s when he gets out. He’s got a handful of years left on his sentence, and hopefully that ages Robert out of the criminal realm. I am not certain of that. I think Robert has a hard time not putting his hands on people.

Yeardley:  What happened to the three-strikes thing? This crime didn’t qualify for that.

Dave:  This crime did not qualify for that based on its attorneys and whatever. It’s over my head. I know that our DA would have given Robert life if it was on the table. Because the DA on this case brought the hammer, his name’s Steve. He was a good one to work for, also Katie worked on this case. They don’t just lay down. So good resolution.

Yeardley:  So, Dave, I guess I just have to ask. I feel like we all, at least sitting at our table, assumed that it was Robert who broke into Kristen’s house the night that she was like, “I have the yips. I’m taking Miranda elsewhere because this guy Robert feels dangerous.” Did you ever get to ask him or did he ever cop to being the one who broke into Kristen’s house?

Dave:  Robert denies being the person who broke into Kristen’s house. If I was a betting man, my money would be on Robert being the guy who broke into Kristen’s house. Robert wasn’t square with me about where he was inside the county when I was looking for him. So why would he own up to breaking into his victim’s home when the police are starting to close in on him?

Yeardley:  Totally, totally agree.

Dave:  So I tell that story because what always stayed with me were the number of heroes that none of them knew each other. So mom number 1 in the first grocery store case is a hero, mom number 2 in the second grocery store incident is a hero, the employee is hero number 3, and Kristen the mom hero number 4, and we’ve got Julie and Darly. Like, a lot of people, did really good things to help get Robert in custody and Robert is like every other sex offender I’ve ever dealt with. When I said that Robert had told Kristen that he went to prison because he got in a nasty brawl in a bar, I saw Dan and you and Paul all shaking your heads like, “Huh. I’ve heard that cover story before.”

Yeardley:  Sure. I was actually expecting him to say, “Oh, I got convicted of statutory rape, but she was a month away from being 18.”

Dave:  That would be the other one. I think in this case, Robert wanted to avoid any mention of being a sex offender for anything jf he’s going to have access to Miranda. Now people will go, “What if Robert really was just acting like her godfather?” My response to that is, “No, Robert is a sex offender who is grooming people in his life so he has access to people like Miranda. It’s not the other way. It’s not innocent.” And then it became crime. It’s all grooming and deceit and manipulation. So it can become a crime. If you look at sex offenders in this regard, every sex offender does everything for a particular reason.

 If you think this person has an agenda for everything they do, even if it looks innocent when taken in total, you go, “This person’s grooming this person, and this suspect wants to get hands on access to this person, and they are going to groom, manipulate, and try to get everyone to trust them throughout this child’s life, so nobody ever thinks that Robert would put his hands on someone because he treats her like it’s goddaughter.” It is all manipulation. I can’t say it loud enough. Sex offenders do exactly what they’re doing for a reason. It is not a coincidence that Robert ended up in Miranda’s company.

Yeardley:  Right. And also, by his own admission, Robert’s telling multiple people, I’m going to get arrested. You don’t say that if you don’t think that you’ve done anything wrong.

Dave:  Right.

Yeardley:  Dave, did you ever find out what Robert’s 13-year prison sentence was for?

Dave:  I was never able to determine that. I have always assumed it had to do with the two women on campus that were attacked, but I’ve never been able to confirm that with police reports. So who knows? I’m just really proud of Kristen and all the people in this case, really proud of Kristen, she’s strong, like someone you don’t mess with, proud mama bear.

Yeardley:  I love that. But also, as you guys say, “Kristen, I’m sure, is grateful that she got somebody like you to pursue this.” Who, when Miranda says, “Tell that detective to come back in the house, you don’t go, no, no. I really think it’s better if we wait till tomorrow.” That you took all of the steps. There’s just so much humility in your approach to the work that you did before you retired. Everything is for the goal. The goal is let me build a case to see if we can get this guy convicted, because I really feel like this is the guy, right. That it’s all about just the facts man, but I understand also the burden of proof is very high.

Dave:  Yeah.

Paul:  What stands out to me about the work you did on this case, Dave, is after the 2014 grocery store incident, you looked up Robert, and you recognized this guy is a serial predator. And so when the call comes in from the store employee that Robert is with a six-year-old girl, you already knew the situation. You know, and I feel for Kristen. Here’s a mom who was completely misled, and then the fear she must have experienced when Dave is telling her, “Well, this is exactly who Robert is.” And find out that Miranda has been inside a house where there’s two sex offenders living.

Dave:  Well, and this goes back to Robert. Robert meets Kristen through a church community group.

Yeardley:  What is a more trusting place to meet somebody?

Dave:  It might as well be a boy scout leader. Like, “Give me a break.”

Paul:  It’s a common cover.

Dave:  Right. And this is why Police officers, especially detectives who have any time in this space, are not naive about this stuff.

Yeardley:  I think that all of y’all’s former caseloads, the kinds of things used to investigate. There is no civilian comparison. And so, yeah, I think most people want to give somebody else the benefit of the doubt. But as I always say, “If your everyday is meeting people on their worst day, including the suspect, it’s their worst day when you show up.” Then you come with a different level of perspective and experience that the rest of us even after seven years of this podcast, I can only barely scratch the surface of because I have not been immersed in it the way you all have. So thank you so much for bringing that to us. Honestly, you’re such a fine storyteller. Story is a misnomer. Obviously, it all really happened, but you’re so organized and you tell it so well, and it really is a treat to have you on the microphone.

Dave:  Well, thank you. My study session last night paid off.

Yeardley:  It paid off my friend.

[laughter]

Yeardley:  Thank you. Now for a sneak peek at today’s new bonus episode.

[music]

Dave:  They didn’t go out for the spring. They went out in the dead of winter. So 10 people set off on this journey up to the Ural Mountains. And within a day or two, one of the students drops out. He has some sort of illness, like a respiratory illness. And that student returns home and so now there’s nine left.

Yeardley:  To listen today’s bonus episode and access hundreds more, go to smalltowdicks.com/superfam and hit that little join button.

 Small Town Dicks was created by Detectives Dan and Dave. The podcast is produced by Jessica Halstead and me, Yeardley Smith. Our senior editor is Soren Begin and our editors are Christina Bracamontes and Erin Phelps. Our associate producers are the Real Nick Smitty and Erin Gaynor. Gary Scott is our executive producer and Logan Heftel is our production manager. Our books are cooked and cats wrangled by Ben Cornwell. And our social media maven is Monika Scott. It would make our day if you became a member of our Small Town Fam by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at @smalltowndicks, we love hearing from you.

 Oh, our groovy theme song was composed by John Forrest. Also, if you’d like to support the making of this podcast, go to smalltowndicks.com/superfam and hit that little join button. There, for a small subscription fee, you’ll find exclusive content you can’t get anywhere else.

 The transcripts of this podcast are thanks to SpeechDocs and they can be found on our website smalltowndicks.com. Thank you SpeechDocs for this wonderful service. Small Town Dicks is an Audio 99 Production. Small Town Fam, thanks for listening.

 Nobody is better than you.

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